Question How to define "owning" Simple standard

Discussion in 'Simple and Sinister FAQ Questions' started by crazycanuck, Aug 7, 2018.

  1. crazycanuck

    crazycanuck Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I am interested in hearing people's thoughts on when they test for the Simple standard, what they would define as truly meeting Simple.

    I am currently using the 16kg for getups, and have been for a number of months. Currently working on using 24kg for swings and now that I can consistently preform 10 reps on either side with good form/power, am working on adding sets of 10 to sets of 20kg swings (female standard I am meeting here, have had setbacks due to injury and life)

    Am still a ways off of doing so, but when I do try for Simple, I plan on using the template that the SF website describes for the submissions for Sinister (swing intervals every 30 sec over 5 min, getups on the top of every minute x 10 min). Yesterday in my practice I tried this method for my getups (and have done so for 12kg getups when deciding to move up in weight). I would say that in "everyday" practice I would rate my percieved efforts as usually 5/10 on average, as obviously I give myself more rest. Usually take a day every 7-10 days to push that envelope. This would have been a good 7 or maybe even an 8/10, the EMOM. Not as easy as with the time I used 12kg (that felt pretty light indeed, was barely breaking a sweat), but I feel I could repeat that 16kg of yesterday at a moment's notice. However, I feel that 16kg would have been pretty brutal actually after only a min rest after all 24kg swings.

    I realize there will be some "suck-age" happening during the event, for lack of a better term, when trying for Simple. The book describes being able to do strongly on any given day. So, what does "owning" Simple mean?

    I guess there obviously is some subjectivity to the whole thing, and when it boils down to it how honest one is with one's-self. In my example of the getup, I think I would want to have that 16kg feel like my 12kg felt. To me, maybe it means some huffing and puffing (definitely during swings lol, my weaker area), but all my reps were powerful and crisp, I could keep control of my nasal breathing, and all my getups tight and strong, but...shouldn't feel like I want to collapse and die on the floor immediately after nor need to be a couch potato the rest of the day. And feel good the next morning and could do it in another day if I wanted to.

    This may sound kind of dumb to be having some deep thoughts about this in this way, but after 2 yrs now on S&S I want to "do this right" when the time comes and not half-a$$ this, after all my time invested that's for sure! What's everyone's benchmark? Form, it feeling close to as easy as everyday practice, both? Would love to hear people's ideas
    Shahaf Levin likes this.
  2. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I think that going for the simple standard on consecutive days is not a reasonable training, so I wouldn't require doing it to the time standards on consecutive days.

    This is my guess for really owning simple: out of 7 days, train 5 days. 2 of those 5 days do it to the time standards. If you can do that without excessive effort and fatigue, I think you own simple.
    Michael Scott and Ryan T like this.
  3. offwidth

    offwidth More than 5000 posts

    I'm thinking that if one has to ask if they 'own simple' then they already know the answer...
    Molson, Bro Mo and Waryrenn like this.
  4. Anna C

    Anna C More than 5000 posts Elite Certified Instructor

    I go for the very "Simple" answer. If you can do it by the technique standards within the time standards, you've earned it. And if you've earned it, you own it.

    Now as far as "owning" a particular size kettlebell, I think of that as "I can skillfully do whatever I want to with this kettelbell and it's not going to kick my a$$". But that's more of a skill and mastery of the weight and movement thing, not so much a time or performance standard.
    ShawnM and ali like this.
  5. Pavel Macek

    Pavel Macek More than 2500 posts Master Certified Instructor

    If you allow me to change @Anna C 's definition, I would say:

    - if you can do it by the technique standards within the time standards, you've achieved it.
    - if you can do it by the technique standards within the time standards any time, you own it.
    DrFierce, Bret S., Bunn and 10 others like this.
  6. Anna C

    Anna C More than 5000 posts Elite Certified Instructor

    Yes I'd agree that's a nice definition. I guess the question to ask yourself is, if you want to go by the "any time" definition, why do you want to ensure that you can do it within the time standards any time? If you absolutely won't allow yourself to touch the next kettlebell for months until you get to this, I think it's counterproductive. You're not telling your body that you need any new strength/power/skill/stamina if you keep doing the same thing over and over. To me, just like owning the kettlebell to me means "I can skillfully do whatever I want with this kettlebell", I also think owning your training means "I can challenge myself with increased weight when I'm ready."

    But the most important thing is training consistently and intelligently, so whatever makes you do that and feel good about it is a winner in my book. :)
  7. Ryan T

    Ryan T More than 500 posts

    @Pavel Macek and @Anna C, I really like both of your answers. @crazycanuck, I am still working towards Simple. Currently I "own" a 24kg bell for getups, but I can "accomplish" the 28kg on a good day. Not near as smooth as the 24kg, but I can do it and still adhere to 10x1 in 10 minutes. Not after 28kg 10 swings every 30 seconds for five mintes with a minute break tho :).
    Bret S. likes this.
  8. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I like this as much as @Pavel Macek's definition. I know I can use this kettlebell for any exercise, with strength, power and precision. I say that, because some use different kettlebells for different exercises. Like, a 32 kg for clean and press, but use a 28 kg for snatching, or a 24 kg for 1HS and/or TGUs. I would say I own the kettlebell when I can use the same one for all exercises, that is ownership to me.

    kiwipete, Bret S. and Jan like this.
  9. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Quadruple-Digit Post Count Elite Certified Instructor

    If you can do the standard with textbook or close to textbook technique any time, and not feel like you finished a wrestling match, you own it.
    Bret S. and crazycanuck like this.
  10. Ryan T

    Ryan T More than 500 posts

    @crazycanuck This is a great post. I just reread it and I am thinking a little more critically.

    If I were to guess, with dedicated and consistent practice, I'm 4-6 weeks away from
    Simple. Depending on how it "feels" when I get there, I may try it again on a weekly basis for another 2-4 weeks. I'd like to "own" the standard before moving on to another program.

    Thank you for your post as well as all those that have contributed to this thread.
    Bret S. and Michael Scott like this.
  11. banzaiengr

    banzaiengr Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I have my own idea, along the lines of Pavel Marcek. Ya, once you've done it you've achieved it.

    To own it and this is where it gets very subjective. With the get up it's doing the 10 get ups without any hint of hurry. When you get there you'll understand what I mean.

    In the swing I have a system that takes some time. There are two ways to do this. Every minute on the minute swings without going over your individual MAF heart rate is one. The other is using the A+A method. Each repeat of 10 swings I'm allowing my HR to lower to a rate that allows me to not go over MAF during or after my next repeat. Using the MAF method I like to get to where I'm doing the 10x10 in less than 9 min.

    As I said, this is very subjective. Since HR isn't the best measurement of perceived effort I'll add this. If I'm training with a weight and during the swing session not really sucking air then you are awfully close to the above.

    And as Pavel and Anna stated, when you can do the above then generally you also will be to a point where you can perform this in the time standard any time.

    The fly in the ointment to me with the time standard is the one minute between movements. Just due to other life stressors, I have found that I can be at the above but then with only one minute rest after the swings the get ups are tough. This is not every time, just some times and all I can point at is poor sleep or something else that may be a stressor.

    Therefore, I don't worry about the one minute between movements if I'm just wanting to own a certain weight for either movement.
  12. Bro Mo

    Bro Mo Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I know I own Simple because I can do it in the time standards, take a 5min break, and do it again within the standards.
    Ryan T, Bret S. and banzaiengr like this.
  13. Bret S.

    Bret S. Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    Nice! That's ownership fer sher..
  14. Bret S.

    Bret S. Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    I did it to time standard every week 4-5 times/wk for months, then the 36 after that, then regained some sanity..
    I got tired of being sore in the glutes and hip flexors, too much lactate bathing for me ..
    J Cox likes this.
  15. offwidth

    offwidth More than 5000 posts

    I don't think I would ever 'own' any of this stuff. I still get taught things by the shoe TGU.... When I have nothing more to learn and perfect then maybe. But I ain't gonna live that long..
    Bro Mo likes this.
  16. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I think there has been a change in paradigm regarding when to move to the next weight since the book was written. IMO, the concensus nowadays is that it is ok to start progressing to the next bell when you can achieve the time standards with good form, but not necessarily "owning" the weight in such a rigourous manner as described in the book.
  17. Chrisdavisjr

    Chrisdavisjr Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Challenge accepted.
    Bro Mo and Bret S. like this.
  18. Ryan T

    Ryan T More than 500 posts

    Wow! That doesn't sound fun at all.
    Bret S. likes this.
  19. Bret S.

    Bret S. Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    I used it as a warm-up for other training, On Mondays/Tuesdays it was pretty easy, then it got harder as the week progressed with the lactate build-up. I don't regret doing it at all.. I wouldn't recommend though, A&A is better!
  20. Ryan T

    Ryan T More than 500 posts

    I don't think I'll ever be at the level where that's a warm up and then the "real" training begins.
    Bret S. likes this.

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