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Other/Mixed Hypertrophy in 40s 50s 60s ?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
BillSteamshovel

BillSteamshovel

Level 5 Valued Member
Just watched this Dan John video, the original question was about hypertrophy in your 40s but he gave an answer that covered 40s 50s 60s
He emphasised doing more hypertrophy as you get older. Am thinking that emphasis on hypertrophy as you get older is to counteract the well known muscle wasting associated with aging.

I was wondering do we have any Strongfirst Articles that specifically discuss exercising as you get older ie differences for each decade ?

I know in one of the books Pavel says something like age doesnt matter, the example given was if you are being mugged and produce your drivers licence to prove your age the mugger isnt going to say "Oh okay, thats fine you can go home now"

Any thoughts ?
 
BillSteamshovel said:
Just watched this Dan John video, the original question was about hypertrophy in your 40s but he gave an answer that covered 40s 50s 60s
He emphasised doing more hypertrophy as you get older. Am thinking that emphasis on hypertrophy as you get older is to counteract the well known muscle wasting associated with aging.

I was wondering do we have any Strongfirst Articles that specifically discuss exercising as you get older ie differences for each decade ?

I know in one of the books Pavel says something like age doesnt matter, the example given was if you are being mugged and produce your drivers licence to prove your age the mugger isnt going to say "Oh okay, thats fine you can go home now"

Any thoughts ?
Click to expand...
On the Joe Rogan podcast Pavel stresses maintaining fast-twitch fibers for longevity by lifting fast and/or heavy.
 
I always find this subject a bit baffling.
Accepting sarcopenia and the slow walk of physical decay is a thing, and that training with the aim of growing muscle to offset muscle wastage with increasing age would, on face value, be a reasonable argument and in general a good thing.
To the general population, this shift of focus, from doing very little or those obsessed with endurance only pursuits, the aim of growing muscle would be beneficial.....but for those that already strength train or do power sport does it apply?
It's a health and fitness thing tapping into this longevity vibe. Various vectors get promoted or sexed up withing the industry....not a new shiny thing per se but something to induce a little health anxiety and fear of missing out....you know, a cynic might argue. And, it'll shift again to something else, sooner or later.
Put it another way....if you strength train 3x week anyway, replacing one or more with hypertrophy or even add a hypertrophy day may well be a good training tool in itself but does it help with vague longevity health goals which are already met by the strength training?

As far as I'm aware strength training involves the use of muscle.

Not against it, to be clear but to me, its applying the needs of a different population to the needs of another, whose needs are being met by doing the thing that the other population needs to do.

Rather like someone who does not need to lose weight but feels a need to do so on the basis that losing weight is good for longevity.

Strength training v hypertrophy training for longevity?

Take this binary distinction through to its binary end point....a strong wiry 80 year old or a muscle bound bodybuilding 80 year old. Who will live the longest, healthiest, remaining few years before taking up golf?
 
ali said:
..but for those that already strength train or do power sport does it apply?
Click to expand...

Yes, at least in my case.

I compete in weightlifting and I get better results now if I have a longer hypertrophy block than I used to have, followed by a strength and power phase.

It takes me longer to put on muscle mass than it used to when I was younger, so I need a longer phased potentiation cycle.

Plus I benefit at the recuperative level after a max power phase of having additional high volume / low intensity work to allow my connective tissues time to recover from competition prep.
 
@ali, I don't think considering this a "binary distinction" is the best way to approach this issue. Training is what is it is, and can be used to add muscle when you're younger, and to maintain _or_ add muscle when you're older. At any age one can tilt one's training towards strength or hypertrophy or any mix thereof.

Where aging fits into this equation is that, because of the natural tendency to lose muscle, one has to slide slightly towards what, at a younger age, might be consider hypertrophy training just to break even and stay the same size.

-S-
 
ali said:
As far as I'm aware strength training involves the use of muscle.

Not against it, to be clear but to me, its applying the needs of a different population to the needs of another, whose needs are being met by doing the thing that the other population needs to do.

Strength training v hypertrophy training for longevity?
Click to expand...

I can see (and experience) differences in hypertrophy (or anti-sarcopenia) in programming. But more in support of your point, on doing "the thing" - simply doing squats (barbell) is going to make a much bigger impact than doing some magical set-rep combination with a less challenging/less uncomfortable variation, for one example.

ali said:
Take this binary distinction through to its binary end point....a strong wiry 80 year old or a muscle bound bodybuilding 80 year old. Who will live the longest, healthiest, remaining few years before taking up golf?
Click to expand...
Sure, the muscle bound probably can't golf. But for longest life, consider that the muscle bound will transition over time to wiry, with above average strength. Now if the muscle bound can't do certain things, or has so much muscle it creates a strain on the heart, maybe the wiry would have an edge.
 
ali said:
Take this binary distinction through to its binary end point....a strong wiry 80 year old or a muscle bound bodybuilding 80 year old. Who will live the longest, healthiest, remaining few years before taking up golf?
Click to expand...

Are they equal in every other respect regarding their blood work and other health markers?

If so, literature puts a correlation with higher lean body mass = less fragility = reduced death from all cause mortality, especially things like falling and ability to recover from severe illness or surgery.

So if their health markers and other factors are equal, the wiry guy, statistically, doesn't have as good odds as the bodybuilder with more muscle mass.

If they're not equal in other health markers, then the thought exercise is pretty moot.
 
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Pete L said:
Is there not a point where excess bodymass of any type has a detrimental effect on health?
Click to expand...

Sure, if you've exceeded your natural genetic potential using gear or have overly fat body composition.

But if you're using supra-physiological doses of anabolics (especially HGH or insulin) to the point that it stresses out your internal systems, that is also going to show up on other health markers.

In other words, you won't look healthy on your labs.

Examples:

--Hematocrit
--Liver and kidney function
--Blood pressure
--Creatinine levels

etc.

Even my moderate 4 days a week of resistance training can screw up my MPS and Creatinine markers.

I just had to get re-tested 3 times in the last 2 weeks.

1st blood test day after lifting, MPS and Creatinine markers flashing red flags.

2nd blood test after 24 hours of no resistance training, toned it down to yellow.

3rd blood test after 48 hours of no resistance training put it in the green zone.

[BTW this is known and expected as resistance training increases the rate of protein turnover]

FWIW, my lean body mass, per last DEXA, is 179 lbs at 6' tall.
 
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ali said:
Take this binary distinction through to its binary end point....a strong wiry 80 year old or a muscle bound bodybuilding 80 year old. Who will live the longest, healthiest, remaining few years before taking up golf?
Click to expand...
Probably worth while to take a look at Clarence Bass's aging photos for a look at what an 80 year old bodybuilder looks like. Clarence Bass: Pictorial Training History
 
watchnerd said:
Sure, if you've exceeded your natural genetic potential using gear or have overly fat body composition.

But if you're using supra-physiological doses of anabolics (especially HGH or insulin) to the point that it stresses out your internal systems, that is also going to show up on other health markers.

In other words, you won't look healthy on your labs.

Examples:

--Hematocrit
--Liver and kidney function
--Blood pressure
--Creatinine levels

etc.

Even my moderate 4 days a week of resistance training can screw up my MPS and Creatinine markers.

I just had to get re-tested 3 times in the last 2 weeks.

1st blood test day after lifting, MPS and Creatine markers flashing red flags.

2nd blood test after 24 hours of no resistance training, toned it down to yellow.

3rd blood test after 48 hours of no resistance training put it in the green zone.

[BTW this is known and expected as resistance training increases the rate of protein turnover]

FWIW, my lean body mass, per last DEXA, is 179 lbs at 6' tall.
Click to expand...
What is MPS please?
Just googled it and it referred to a radioactive arterial test.
I had poor liver markers when tested 5 years ago. I put it down to booze and passed after slowing down on midweek drinking.
My dad died of a heart attack so interested to know if heavy training could confuse a doctor!
 
Pete L said:
What is MPS please?
Just googled it and it referred to a radioactive arterial test.
I had poor liver markers when tested 5 years ago. I put it down to booze and passed after slowing down on midweek drinking.
My dad died of a heart attack so interested to know if heavy training could confuse a doctor!
Click to expand...

MPS = muscle protein synthesis

The same marker that can indicate a high level of MPS (as expected from resistance training) are also the same markers that can be one of the indicators for failing kidneys in people with kidney disease.
 
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