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Off-Topic Hypertrophy

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
or purposes of optimization of time spent, target 9 sets within loading parameters.

For maximization of net mass gained, maximize sets per week.

That's leaving out minimum effective volume, maximum recoverable volume and maximum adaptive volume per week.

You need to be:

Above Minimum Effective Volume (MEV)

Below Maximum Recoverable Volume (MRV)

And doing much more than Maximum Adaptive Volume (MAV) is just junk volume.

Your body can only adapt by growing muscle so fast, so it's not just a matter of maxing sets per week.


So more or less, almost any and everything I've seen from StrongFirst.

To be blunt, Strongfirst's materials are not exactly the best place to look for tips on maximizing hypertrophy.

Getting swole isn't really 'on brand' for StrongFirst. ;)
 
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Dayz

Level 6 Valued Member
More sets means more tonnage.
The key for hypertrophy though, is how *hard* are the sets?

You could get huge tonnage but never come close to failure, doing a huge number of sets at RPE 5.

What seems to make the most difference is accumulating sets at RPE 8-9, even 10 or "10+" by using forced reps, partial reps and other stupid things.

Sometimes that will decrease the tonnage. Three all out sets will do more for Hypertrophy than 6 sets at RPE of 6. The former may have less tonnage
 

3letterslong

Level 5 Valued Member
The key for hypertrophy though, is how *hard* are the sets?

You could get huge tonnage but never come close to failure, doing a huge number of sets at RPE 5.

What seems to make the most difference is accumulating sets at RPE 8-9, even 10 or "10+" by using forced reps, partial reps and other stupid things.

Sometimes that will decrease the tonnage. Three all out sets will do more for Hypertrophy than 6 sets at RPE of 6. The former may have less tonnage

For awhile, I was seeing people talk online about "effective reps", the idea that the last few reps before failure are the only ones that are effective for building muscle. I wanted to learn more about it, so I got my hands on Chris Beardsley's books, who I think is one of the pioneers (or merely an amplifier?) of the "effective reps" method.

What he actually wrote (in his hypertrophy book) was that the last 5 reps are the ones that are effective for building muscle and, if you're using a weight that is your 5rm or above, then every rep will be effective for building muscle.

I'm just throwing this out there to see what you all think about the "effective reps" method. A few posts here, including yours, reminded me of it.
 

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
What he actually wrote (in his hypertrophy book) was that the last 5 reps are the ones that are effective for building muscle and, if you're using a weight that is your 5rm or above, then every rep will be effective for building muscle.

I'm just throwing this out there to see what you all think about the "effective reps" method. A few posts here, including yours, reminded me of it.

In the Peter Attia podcast above Layne Norton talks about why "effective reps" has been replaced by "hard sets", because even ultra low reps (1-5) have some hypertrophy effect if you control for number of hard sets.
 

3letterslong

Level 5 Valued Member
In the Peter Attia podcast above Layne Norton talks about why "effective reps" has been replaced by "hard sets", because even ultra low reps (1-5) have some hypertrophy effect if you control for number of hard sets.
oof I might end up listening to that three-hour beast.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
For awhile, I was seeing people talk online about "effective reps", the idea that the last few reps before failure are the only ones that are effective for building muscle. I wanted to learn more about it, so I got my hands on Chris Beardsley's books, who I think is one of the pioneers (or merely an amplifier?) of the "effective reps" method.

What he actually wrote (in his hypertrophy book) was that the last 5 reps are the ones that are effective for building muscle and, if you're using a weight that is your 5rm or above, then every rep will be effective for building muscle.

I'm just throwing this out there to see what you all think about the "effective reps" method. A few posts here, including yours, reminded me of it.

I think all the reps are effective, but the need to go close to failure means the last few are important. Also there are more options the larger you get. Mentzer was using low volume Clusters to very good effect.

My POV, nutrition and high RPE demand are the two most important factors - the current amount of muscle mass must be insufficient for the demands placed in it, its that simple
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
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In the Peter Attia podcast above Layne Norton talks about why "effective reps" has been replaced by "hard sets", because even ultra low reps (1-5) have some hypertrophy effect if you control for number of hard sets.
I think he also said it's less applicable to full-body compound movements. More applicable to isolation exercises.
 

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
I think he also said it's less applicable to full-body compound movements. More applicable to isolation exercises.

Yes, he did.

He also gave the example of an RPE 5 squat being more fatiguing (and thus having more recovery debt) than an RPE 9 leg extension.
 

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
My POV, nutrition and high RPE demand are the two most important factors - the current amount of muscle mass must be insufficient for the demands placed in it, its that simple

Right.

Because if your body can meet the required force demand through another, metabolically cheaper means first, such as neurological adaptation, it will do that first.

Muscle is expensive tissue to create, and an amount in excess of needs is a caloric survival liability.
 

silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
Dan John ever talked about incorporating calisthenics? I don't think I've ever seen him cover the topic, but I'd love to read his thoughts on it.
In the sense that calisthenics fit into his push pull hinge squat loaded carry formula, yes. His generator will program a whole calisthenics program if you set it to that.

But I don't think he has ever written about Utah's underground calisthenics secrets to being super strong or anything like that.
 

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
But I don't think he has ever written about Utah's underground calisthenics secrets to being super strong or anything like that.

Yeah, unless you're a gymnast or a fighting sport (wrestling, judo), calisthenics doesn't get a lot of attention in collegiate weight rooms. The progression scaling doesn't fit the models used and then there are the skilling elements that sucks up extra time, too.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

I guess that several protocols may lead to hypertrophy, but some of them may not be as "optimal" as other: meaning no as effective or as efficient.

If we consider high repetition calisthenics, inmates are sometimes pretty jacked without the use of weights. They may rely on high repetition bodyweight stuff. This is at least what we can read in training books like Josh Bryant's Jailhouse strong. In the book, he mostly describes once a day session, so this is not GTG. Would a pure JHS lead to as much hypertrophy as inmates...

Nonetheless, you can find plenty of examples of high rep stuff which lead to hypertrophy: IronWolf is a good one. High dose of burpees, dips, push ups, pulls ups, core and running.

Another one could be De Niro's Cape Fear, mentioned several times on SF. Below is a link of the routine.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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