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Off-Topic Hypertrophy

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
If we consider high repetition calisthenics, inmates are sometimes pretty jacked without the use of weights. They may rely on high repetition bodyweight stuff. This is at least what we can read in training books like Josh Bryant's Jailhouse strong. In the book, he mostly describes once a day session, so this is not GTG. Would a pure JHS lead to as much hypertrophy as inmates...

My understanding is that inmates also use a lot of tempo modulation variance and isometrics (much like gymnasts).
 

flightposite

Level 5 Valued Member
I would love to see a book for all of the seminars
Plan strong, built strong and this most recent one programming improv.

Or at very least offer the manuals for sale.
Many many people who for whatever reason can’t or won’t attend a seminar would flock to buy the books or manuals.

My 0.2
 

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
One thing that I will be curious to see StrongFirst's reaction to is the evidence now that metabolic factors, and/ or metabolites that contribute to the feeling of the burn during a pump, are one of the mechanisms that induces hypertrophy.

Which then raises questions about:

1. Are the metabolites that cause the type of burn associated with getting a pump different from the lactic acid burning feeling that comes up in glycolytic training?

2. If they're not different, what does this mean about hypertrophy training vs A + A training methods?
 

3letterslong

Level 5 Valued Member
I was thinking about what you guys are writing regarding "hard sets" (great thread, btw, I'm learning a lot here) and was wondering what you guys thought about the D.B. Hammer method. I got it from a Dan Fichter product.

Basically you line up your exercises and go through them once in a circuit to establish your baseline, i.e.

squat x 6
overhead press x 10
pull-ups x 8
dips x 8
SLDL x 10

(whatever reps you get in your first set)

And then you keep going through that circuit until your performance diminishes by 10 percent (about 1 or 2 reps, he has a chart to consult), at which point you terminate that exercise. Once you have terminated all exercises, you're done the workout.

So you would keep doing sets of squats until you were only able to do 5 reps, overhead presses until you were only able to do 8 reps, etc.

It's the only program I know of where you get a high volume of hard sets and every set is a hard set. I never really appreciated it until this thread.

Thoughts?
 

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
I was thinking about what you guys are writing regarding "hard sets" (great thread, btw, I'm learning a lot here) and was wondering what you guys thought about the D.B. Hammer method. I got it from a Dan Fichter product.

Basically you line up your exercises and go through them once in a circuit to establish your baseline, i.e.

squat x 6
overhead press x 10
pull-ups x 8
dips x 8
SLDL x 10

(whatever reps you get in your first set)

And then you keep going through that circuit until your performance diminishes by 10 percent (about 1 or 2 reps, he has a chart to consult), at which point you terminate that exercise. Once you have terminated all exercises, you're done the workout.

So you would keep doing sets of squats until you were only able to do 5 reps, overhead presses until you were only able to do 8 reps, etc.

It's the only program I know of where you get a high volume of hard sets and every set is a hard set. I never really appreciated it until this thread.

Thoughts?

Sounds like I could hit systemic fatigue before reaching local muscular failure.

Which is fine for conditioning, but not optimal for hypertrophy.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
@3letterslong

My last real run at hypertrophy was based around 2-3 very easy sets followed by one serious blaster of a set. No burnout follow ups, no tough sets up front. The easy sets about a RPE of 5-6, the last set was a 10+.

I never really trained to failure, but by using Rest/Pause and Clusters I’d say in some respects this is “beyond” failure, but I never ran a set to a stall.

This was a minimum effective dose for me, the minimum needed to reliably feel like I was getting bigger on my days off.
 

Boris Bachmann

Level 7 Valued Member
I was thinking about what you guys are writing regarding "hard sets" (great thread, btw, I'm learning a lot here) and was wondering what you guys thought about the D.B. Hammer method.
DB Hammer was a notorious shyster. A few things had some merit, but yeah, I'd be really dubious about taking much from the templates offered by him. I probably have his booklet lying around somewhere...
 

3letterslong

Level 5 Valued Member
@3letterslong

My last real run at hypertrophy was based around 2-3 very easy sets followed by one serious blaster of a set. No burnout follow ups, no tough sets up front. The easy sets about a RPE of 5-6, the last set was a 10+.

I never really trained to failure, but by using Rest/Pause and Clusters I’d say in some respects this is “beyond” failure, but I never ran a set to a stall.

This was a minimum effective dose for me, the minimum needed to reliably feel like I was getting bigger on my days off.

Oh, you must be the poster who referenced Thibaudeau earlier! I looked up the workout after it was mentioned.

Have you ever read Jon Bruney's Neuro-Mass? I ended up altering it to look very similar to what you're doing. It was a couple of easy strength sets and then a superset of a higher-rep grind immediately followed by a ballistic (anything - swings, hops, clap push-ups, punching, etc.. that worked the same muscles) immediately followed by an iso hold. I liked it, but I didn't know of anyone who supported any of the ideas in it so I didn't put much time into it. Now that I've seen Thibaudeau's program, I'm thinking about going back to my version of Neuro-Mass.
 

3letterslong

Level 5 Valued Member
DB Hammer was a notorious shyster. A few things had some merit, but yeah, I'd be really dubious about taking much from the templates offered by him. I probably have his booklet lying around somewhere...

Yeah, I've read the controversy around him. Most of what I've learned about his methods I've got from Dan Fichter and his partner (I forget his name), who seem to be legit coaches. I really like the autoregulation of that method.
 

svencandy

Level 1 Valued Member
I think it will, but best to work in 50-80% range as opposed to 30-50% range
If thats how you like to train, give it a try. Others would say better methods exist for HT, but training is also enjoyment, down time and re energizing oneself.
I think mechanical tension has been found to be the major driver of HT anyway
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Oh, you must be the poster who referenced Thibaudeau earlier! I looked up the workout after it was mentioned.

Have you ever read Jon Bruney's Neuro-Mass? I ended up altering it to look very similar to what you're doing. It was a couple of easy strength sets and then a superset of a higher-rep grind immediately followed by a ballistic (anything - swings, hops, clap push-ups, punching, etc.. that worked the same muscles) immediately followed by an iso hold. I liked it, but I didn't know of anyone who supported any of the ideas in it so I didn't put much time into it. Now that I've seen Thibaudeau's program, I'm thinking about going back to my version of Neuro-Mass.

Personally I’d watch out for approaches that have too many moving parts. That’s why I like the older Thib program - two moderate sets and blow it in on the last set, move on.

Some other advice from Thib I took to heart “do what is needed to trigger muscle protein synthesis and get out of the gym”.

For hypertrophy you CAN sub some volume for intensity of effort and avoid a lot of the chronic achiness associated with many high volume programs. OK to be a little sore when you wake up, by lunch you should feel great.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Is it possible to get a good amount of hypertrophy while doing grease the groove? My main goal is to make the muscle bigger. Let's say for something like pullups to make my back bigger.
Fabio has walked the walk here - the articles @Brett Jones gave links to, BuiltStrong - are from someone who has competed as a natural bodybuilder.

The simplest way I've heard "how to get bigger?" answered is from Pavel, "Get a pump with a heavy weight." You can do that in a lot of ways. Higher reps per set will do it, but shorter rests between sets will also do it.

Picking movements that are new to you will also do it. Increasing volume will also do it. Here's a thread from a few months ago that's relevant: Barbell - Volume and Frequency Correlation

Powerlifters, for years, have practiced backoff sets wherein, after working up to the day's heaviest weights, they keep on lifting but with progressively lighter weights. It's a pretty simple, classic formula for getting bigger and stronger. People have been following 20-rep squat programs with good results for decades.

@Bookman, a very simple suggestion if you're willing to try it: GTG pullups and FSQ like this: After each set of pullups, front squat a pair of 10RM kettlebells for a set of 5. Eat enough, sleep enough, and I'm pretty sure you'll get bigger.

NB for older athletes: if you're smart, as you age you'll incorporate more and more programming that's typically thought of as producing hypertrophy even if you don't want hypertrophy because it's harder to keep muscle.

-S-
 
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