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Bodyweight I have a mental dilemma I need to talk out...

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JohnDoeman

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So...

I completed a full 5RM cycle of the Fighter Pull-Up Program with Chin-Ups, Handstand Push-Ups, Pistols to 12" box, and Hanging Leg Raises. I have been struggling with what I should do next. Should I add weight to my chins or progress to a harder version of pull-ups? Should I increase ROM in the handstand push-up and restart or maybe pick a push-up movement? Should I try to increase the ROM of my hanging leg raise or maybe pick a new abs movement?

The only one that I do not really question is the pistols. I want to get my pistols but the choice of progression is difficult. I want to try and maybe go for banded pistols with full ROM, lowering the box past 12" seems to be almost to the point of full ROM anyways (even with my short legs).

I also thought of doing switching my pulling movement to ring rows and pressing movement to ring push-ups and simply progressing until I cannot progress anymore.

I cannot quite get toes-to-bar with the leg raises so I figure I just bring my legs up as far as my big belly will let me. I really think the toes-to-bar thing is limited due to the size and shape of my stomach. It is slowly being reduced with running / jump rope / walking so that is a positive.

Do you see what I deal with here? My brain won't leave me alone!!!
 
@JohnDoeman Congrats on completing the 5RM cycle! What goals are you shooting for with this program? If you can specify what it is you're hoping to achieve, we can provide practical advice for progressing with your training.
 
@Chrisdavisjr - Honestly, aside from making my goal of doing full, unassisted pistols, I want all-over general physical preparedness and strength with calisthenics. I do not want to spend hours and hours in the gym so I want each session to give me the most bang for my time. Adding in a bit of vanity I want to look aesthetic and "balanced" and hopefully with my jump rope intervals and running I can drop the fat and look leaner too.

I practice running as I need to get better at running (I am using Stew Smith's beginner running plan, it is awesome) if and when I test for the US Marshals (waiting on background check, the it will be medical exam, physical exam, then job offer).

As an after-thought, I think that the ring-push-up would work, then I can just start elevating my feet in each new cycle until I can almost do a full handstand press from the rings.

As for the pull movement, unsure how I could proceed with that. Maybe do the same as the push-ups and then at a certain point turn it into a ring pull-up progression (i.e. change to jack-knifes...etc).

Talking it out really helps.
 
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JohnDoeman said:
@Chrisdavisjr - Honestly, aside from making my goal of doing full, unassisted pistols, I want all-over general physical preparedness and strength with calisthenics. I do not want to spend hours and hours in the gym so I want each session to give me the most bang for my time. Adding in a bit of vanity I want to look aesthetic and "balanced" and hopefully with my jump rope intervals and running I can drop the fat and look leaner too.

I practice running as I need to get better at running (I am using Stew Smith's beginner running plan, it is awesome) if and when I test for the US Marshals (waiting on background check, the it will be medical exam, physical exam, then job offer).
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John...
I think you are doing many of the right things already.
I would keep the pull-ups. Either add weight or reps.
Since you like the bodyweight stuff. Start working on push-ups. Eventually getting to the OAPU. NW Style.
Remember to not neglect some mobility training.
Keep up with the running.

I know that you know that 'dropping fat and looking leaner' is mostly going to have to occur in the kitchen...

And I wish you all the best in your US Marshals journey...

I almost forgot... on the pistols... are you using a counterweight?
 
@Steve Freides - I do agree. That is part of the goal. Placing less emphasis on the strength portion and more on the weight / fat loss. I do know that based on my body type that it is best to try and do something every day. I usually pair my strength and conditioning together each day into 20-30 minute blocks for 40-60m total. This way I am burning every day.

@offwidth - I am not using counterweight but I think it is going to end up being necessary. I tend to be fine until right at the bottom and then I just fall backwards because I cannot counterbalance enough to stay up.
 
JohnDoeman said:
@Steve Freides - I do agree. That is part of the goal. Placing less emphasis on the strength portion and more on the weight / fat loss. I do know that based on my body type that it is best to try and do something every day. I usually pair my strength and conditioning together each day into 20-30 minute blocks for 40-60m total. This way I am burning every day.

@offwidth - I am not using counterweight but I think it is going to end up being necessary. I tend to be fine until right at the bottom and then I just fall backwards because I cannot counterbalance enough to stay up.
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One way to help with this sticking point is find some assistance (bed post, chair, coffee table, etc) and put yourself in the bottom position and just hold it there for time.

Kinda like doing third world squats for up to 10min, a la Kelley Starret.

This is how I got strength through that last ROM and the ability to do a pistol.
 
JohnDoeman said:
@Steve Freides - I do agree. That is part of the goal. Placing less emphasis on the strength portion and more on the weight / fat loss. I do know that based on my body type that it is best to try and do something every day. I usually pair my strength and conditioning together each day into 20-30 minute blocks for 40-60m total. This way I am burning every day.

@offwidth - I am not using counterweight but I think it is going to end up being necessary. I tend to be fine until right at the bottom and then I just fall backwards because I cannot counterbalance enough to stay up.
Click to expand...

Sometimes ankle mobility and/or tight hamstrings are the issue.

Another hack you can do is to start to do Pistols in ridgid boots. Like ski boots or mountaineering boots. Eventually you will want to ween yourself from such aids however...
 
The money for me as far as finally getting a full pistol was going down on two legs (placed together), sticking one out, and coming up on one. It took the 'fear' out of my knee as far as descending past a certain point, if that makes any sense.
 
Working on mobility (hip, hamstring, ankle) is oftentimes the missing link in the pistol squat achievement.
Try to incorporate rocking (OS style) into your training.
Apart from that doing pistol squats onto an elevation was the most helpful progression in achieving full pistols for me.
Another suggestion: maybe work on the OAPU?
This would fit your goals quite well, I think.
Also, you might consider crawls also. They will help with pistols and OAPU while delivering great conditioning and also mobility (bang for your buck)

Could look something like this:

Mo-we-fr: strength

1a: OAPU
1b: Pullup
2a: Pistol
2b: Leg raise
3a: Dips
3b: BW rows

3 is optional and to be done with less sets/higher reps

Tu-thu-(sa): conditioning

-Crawl
-Jump rope
 
JohnDoeman said:
@Chrisdavisjr - Honestly, aside from making my goal of doing full, unassisted pistols, I want all-over general physical preparedness and strength with calisthenics. I do not want to spend hours and hours in the gym so I want each session to give me the most bang for my time. Adding in a bit of vanity I want to look aesthetic and "balanced" and hopefully with my jump rope intervals and running I can drop the fat and look leaner too.

I practice running as I need to get better at running (I am using Stew Smith's beginner running plan, it is awesome) if and when I test for the US Marshals (waiting on background check, the it will be medical exam, physical exam, then job offer).

As an after-thought, I think that the ring-push-up would work, then I can just start elevating my feet in each new cycle until I can almost do a full handstand press from the rings.

As for the pull movement, unsure how I could proceed with that. Maybe do the same as the push-ups and then at a certain point turn it into a ring pull-up progression (i.e. change to jack-knifes...etc).

Talking it out really helps.
Click to expand...

Your mind seems unnecessarily cluttered with irrelevant and arbitrary training goals.

You need to get as lean, strong and enduring as possible. All while staying healthy.

Build endurance with running and walking. Build general strength with whatever big push and press you enjoy. Work on specific strength for your tests as a footnote. Use a polarized training model.

You must consider the larger aspects of fitness, given your career pursuits: longevity, injury prevention, resiliency, less time on sick leave, etc.

Your primary focus should be in the kitchen.
 
I spent a bit mulling over the suggestions here. All good options.

@offwidth - I think the handstand push-up route will likely be the best route; I love doing the handstand pressing (I can get 2-3 reps at full ROM) and as @aciampa mentioned I should do what I enjoy so I will keep on it. You are correct with ankle mobility issues (with my left leg). I have broken / sprained...etc that foot and it seems to have mobility issues that my right foot doesn't. I can go full ROM on my right with band assist but not my left. I think my right leg is ready for full pistols but I do not want to progress on one leg too far beyond the other. When I do close-squats my left heel tends to lift a bit unvoluntarily. It fees like there is something there physically in the way of preventing full ROM on that ankle. Guess I will find a way to get that ROM back. I may have to progress in that boot or shoe with a raised heel (as much as I would hate to) I love workouts in bare feet!

So my set-up will look a bit like this:
Pull-Ups (as a progression from chin-ups, then will progress to ring pull-ups after pullups, then start adding weight)
Box Pistols L (4B)*
Hanging V-Raise (going as high as I am able under control, eventually hoping to get toes-to-bar)
(2B)* Deficit Handstand Push-Up
Box Pistol R (4B)*
Head Bridge

*B = Bricks, so 4B = 4 Bricks or 2B = 2 Bricks

I will be starting at the 3RM and progressing through the 5RM. Progress to the next step, rinse, and repeat.

My conditioning will be pretty simple. Using Stew Smith's running plan for beginners and just working on learning how to run properly and breathe properly (something never taught to me in the Marine Corps). Treating it like practice and when I get to my 3 mile I will then begin to try to get faster. I will do about 3 days a week with this, and then I have a beginner jump rope interval program I am doing on the opposing days. Run time will be maybe 20-30 mins and jump rope 15-20. My strength sets will be done in a circuit with about 1 minute rest between sets so it will also provide a bit of conditioning. Hoping I will keep my workouts to 45-60m total.
 
I don't mean to be difficult but the demands of the PFT, PAT, and PFTB are quite different specific demands than pull-ups, pistols, HSPU, etc. The plan you outline is not aligned that well to the US Marshal test(s). Studying math will make you smarter but I wouldn't focus on it for a history test.
 
I know what those tests require. I am only slightly concerned with the 1.5 mile run but otherwise I will not have much issue passing. I spent 8 years as a Marine and the one regret I have was that I started lifting weights and did not just stick to calisthenics and running. The US Marshals test to enter the academy is as follows:

Illinois Agility Test
Max Bench Press
1.5 Mile Run
Grip Strength Test

I sprint much better and am way more agile than I am able to run for distance, I bench around 350ish (still), and can close a 2.5 Captains of Crush gripper and even hang for a good long time on the pullup bar (even at 250lbs).

I am surprised you have never heard of general physical preparedness. That is essentially what I am going for at the moment (with some specificity with running). I have a few personal goals but they do not take away from the overall strength and conditioning goals.

I have endured Marine Corps boot camp and combat training so I am fairly certain I am aware of the requirements and rigors of a basic training program. I will work on specificity probably 6-8 weeks prior to the fitness test.

Lastly, trying to liken this scenario to a completely different analogy is not a valid argument. I think if you have enough experience with the world of strength, conditioning, and overall fitness it would be readily apparent that strength is strength and conditioning is conditioning no matter how you choose to build it. What's more, even calisthenics proves itself to provide strength AND conditioning and even carries over to weight training really well. You just flatly say my plan does not align with the US Marshals test but offer no reason or alternative argument.
 
Sorry I misunderstood what you were looking for; I had the impression you were more concerned about preparing for the test(s).

Jeff Nichols has a good run peaking program for the 1.5mi; which might already be part of Stew's program but I don't know Stew's program that well.

Having been in a similar physical condition as you with similar background and objectives. I have reduced strength work to 2 days per week, 3 long easy distance days, and one tempo running day which has been good for me as a bigger guy. Additionally, going into ketosis periodically for a few weeks was the only significant body composition changes I've seen.
 
So this weekend I was scrolling through my kindle books (something I've not done for a good long while). I came across a book that seemed lost to the ages in my mind but sort of shot out at me when I got to it. Tactical Barbell II Conditioning, problem solved... lol... forgot I even had this book!
 
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