Bodyweight I want to make a new training program.

[User 4484]

Another Finnish? you guys are going to take over the forum

That's the plan, don't tell anyone

Welcome, Scandinavian friend!

 

[sebape]

I hear you. These are pretty common beginner Calisthenics goals (I certainly had them). As good as The Naked Warrior really is, since it doesn't really cover these goals, I'm not sure it's a good fit. As good as a program can be, I personally don't think it's a good choice if it doesn't meet your goals. I think the SFB would be a much better fit, but until then, you need a program.

I actually like ThenX. Chris knows his stuff and his programs are sensible. I've trained with him here in Florida, he's pretty experienced.

Personally, I think you really should not overthink this. Read about other programs but don't program hop. You need to stick to something for a few weeks before it works. It doesn't have to be complex right now so for the sake of your results, stick to Herria's program for a bit longer and re-assess in the future. Worst thing you can do right now is to just leave that and re-start an entirely different program.

That said:

You can probably bump up the frequency a bit. Chris makes the very intelligent choice of giving enough rest to Beginners. That fits well in people's schedules and is an easier barrier of entry. But if you feel like you can add a day (say a push+pull day on Day 6), go ahead.

^That is called Tinkering and in my opinion, is fine. To slowly change the program, cutting/adding frequency/exercises/sets, etc slowly as you get stronger is fine.




So much truth on this post ^. Glad to see you back @Tarzan ^_^

Well i'm not that sure if ThenX actually has worked for me. I never liked the idea of only training a muscle once a week and that's what the ThenX program has been so i have been adding my own routines to other days as extra, for example 3x5 pull ups, 3x5 wide pull ups, 3x5 chinups to friday, even though thenX program doesn't have that on the workout routine. now the reason ThenX program has not worked for me could be because i haven't followed it strictly and instead added these extra sets. But it's just really hard for me to think that i would increase my pull up reps by only training them once a week, especially if i want to be able to muscle up.

 

[sebape]

I hear you. These are pretty common beginner Calisthenics goals (I certainly had them). As good as The Naked Warrior really is, since it doesn't really cover these goals, I'm not sure it's a good fit. As good as a program can be, I personally don't think it's a good choice if it doesn't meet your goals. I think the SFB would be a much better fit, but until then, you need a program.

I actually like ThenX. Chris knows his stuff and his programs are sensible. I've trained with him here in Florida, he's pretty experienced.

Personally, I think you really should not overthink this. Read about other programs but don't program hop. You need to stick to something for a few weeks before it works. It doesn't have to be complex right now so for the sake of your results, stick to Herria's program for a bit longer and re-assess in the future. Worst thing you can do right now is to just leave that and re-start an entirely different program.

That said:

You can probably bump up the frequency a bit. Chris makes the very intelligent choice of giving enough rest to Beginners. That fits well in people's schedules and is an easier barrier of entry. But if you feel like you can add a day (say a push+pull day on Day 6), go ahead.

^That is called Tinkering and in my opinion, is fine. To slowly change the program, cutting/adding frequency/exercises/sets, etc slowly as you get stronger is fine.




So much truth on this post ^. Glad to see you back @Tarzan ^_^

i don't think the program has been working for me. Although i haven't followed it to 100%, by that i mean i'v added a lot, like instead of only doing a muscle group once a week i'v been doing them twice. and my Pull ups have plateaued terribly, gone from 11 to 14 in maybe 4 months. and been stuck on 14 the past 2 months and i can't even do 14 all the time anymore. as i mentioned before i started GTG pull ups today because of this and i'm committed to it. so i wont be doing any other pulling or bicep training during GTG. Another skepticism about the ThenX program i'v been doing is that you only train a muscle group once a week and i'm having trouble believing how doing pull ups only once a week will get you to 20 strict pull ups in a row.

 

[sebape]

woops, i thought the first message didn't send and i had to write everything again. guess it was just a delay, sorry about that.

 

[305pelusa]

Another important thing is that if a program is not working well, then definitely cut it out. It's as simple as that. Because you posted this:

Do you think this program is good and i should keep at it or do you think i should train a muscle group more often than once/week?

I assumed that you had just recently started it and wanted opinions. If it has not worked, then it doesn't matter at all what I or anybody else thinks about the program. You should probably follow something else.

You have a couple of options:

1) What I personally would do is just use ThenX program and tinker with it slowly until you start to see results. This really isn't as hard as people think. The program is a 5-day a week split. You could make it into a 3-day a week split like such

Day 1 and 4: Back, Biis, Chest, Triis
Day 2: Leg, Abs
Day 3 and 6: Shoulder
Day 5 and 7: Rest

You'd essentially combine two sessions in one. You could alternate sets of opposing movement patterns. And cut some of the extraneous exercises as you see fit (for instance, don't do as many of the Ab ones... Cut the bar curls... Do only 3 rounds, you get the idea). That will very effectively increase the frequency. Usually one dedicated leg and ab workout a week is enough. Should day will be inherently shorter.

Basically you're taking the program and just adding extra days. What you did is add days with 3 x 5 pull-ups, which are rather useless because your max is 14+. ThenX works because you're working very near your max (technical failure) but rest up for a few days a week. I don't think 3 x 5 of Pull-ups are that useful at your level.

2) Just scrap ThenX and follow something else. The Recommended Routine on Reddit matches every one of your goals, has all the tutorials, rep schemes, progressions, and a very long list of people who it worked for. It's really comprehensive:
kb/recommended_routine - bodyweightfitness

Otherwise, you can just follow GTG and TNW. It works really well too. If your goals are the levers, MUs, a bit of mass, etc, it might not be a good choice for those (talking from experience, getting really good at OAPUs and OA Chin-ups did basically zero for my levers, Handstands, etc... there isn't great carry-over there for me personally). But it's a good program overall nonetheless so certainly a good option.

Hope that clears up a bit sort of the thought process of debugging your choices.

 

[sebape]

Another important thing is that if a program is not working well, then definitely cut it out. It's as simple as that. Because you posted this:



I assumed that you had just recently started it and wanted opinions. If it has not worked, then it doesn't matter at all what I or anybody else thinks about the program. You should probably follow something else.

You have a couple of options:

1) What I personally would do is just use ThenX program and tinker with it slowly until you start to see results. This really isn't as hard as people think. The program is a 5-day a week split. You could make it into a 3-day a week split like such

Day 1 and 4: Back, Biis, Chest, Triis
Day 2: Leg, Abs
Day 3 and 6: Shoulder
Day 5 and 7: Rest

You'd essentially combine two sessions in one. You could alternate sets of opposing movement patterns. And cut some of the extraneous exercises as you see fit (for instance, don't do as many of the Ab ones... Cut the bar curls... Do only 3 rounds, you get the idea). That will very effectively increase the frequency. Usually one dedicated leg and ab workout a week is enough. Should day will be inherently shorter.

Basically you're taking the program and just adding extra days. What you did is add days with 3 x 5 pull-ups, which are rather useless because your max is 14+. ThenX works because you're working very near your max (technical failure) but rest up for a few days a week. I don't think 3 x 5 of Pull-ups are that useful at your level.

2) Just scrap ThenX and follow something else. The Recommended Routine on Reddit matches every one of your goals, has all the tutorials, rep schemes, progressions, and a very long list of people who it worked for. It's really comprehensive:
kb/recommended_routine - bodyweightfitness

Otherwise, you can just follow GTG and TNW. It works really well too. If your goals are the levers, MUs, a bit of mass, etc, it might not be a good choice for those (talking from experience, getting really good at OAPUs and OA Chin-ups did basically zero for my levers, Handstands, etc... there isn't great carry-over there for me personally). But it's a good program overall nonetheless so certainly a good option.

Hope that clears up a bit sort of the thought process of debugging your choices.

Yes, i have been doing this program for months.
I started to think that maybe i was just doing that exact same program for too long and thought it didn't do much because i did the same exact thing over and over. i found out ThenX has 8 parts in every program. i did the intermediate program part 1 only because part 1 is free. i payed the $10 for the full program and i think this could help. Every part is essentially a week and every part gets a little bit harder so when you successfully complete part 1 you can try for part 2 and so on.
I will still continue my GTG and try part 2 of the intermediate program and skip the pulling day during GTG.

the 3x5 3x5 3x5 pull up routine i did, is really hard for me though, it does get me to muscle failure on the last 2 sets, i only have 1 min breaks between sets.

 

[Tarzan]

the 3x5 3x5 3x5 pull up routine i did, is really hard for me though, it does get me to muscle failure on the last 2 sets, i only have 1 min breaks between sets.

If you are going to failure each time you do this and it's really hard for you then it doesn't seem optimal to me. 1 minute between sets isn't going to allow your muscles recover fully and recharge with ATP either.

You need to learn about phosphate pathways and how to exploit them properly to train for strength, that scheme breaks a few fundamental rules.

Here's an excerpt form an article about strength training for cyclists where the phosphate pathways are explained.
Full article here AIS power training for sprinters — aboc Cycle Coaching

" 9. A Gym session lasts about 2.5-3 hours for 6 or 7 exercises, a maximum of 33 sets including 12 warm-ups sets, so that's about one set every six minutes or more on average. We don't set maximum rests, just minimums. If they need longer to get their heads in gear, they take it. Ryan Bayley is the slowest trainer in the world. Lucky he's so bloody fast, they'll pay my bill to sit there and talk about muscle cars and heavy metal music. Reps are a maximum of 6 for strength, and 4 - 15 for power (less for high percentages - 60-70% max, more for low percentages - 20%, or BW for plyos) Total contraction time for a set (not counting hang time in the air) is around 6-8s max - phosphate energy system all the way. Minimum of 2 min rest, but that is never in danger. Only the phosphate energy system can deliver energy fast enough for maximal work and you've got about 8s max. "

For pullups you can reverse what he's said about hang time as your hang is at the bottom not the top.

Your sessions don't have to be that long but time under tension & rest periods should be similar.