I'd like to get more serious with slow strength

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Hello all,

As some of you know, my base program is S&S. I'm doing it 2-3 times a week with the 40kg bell. I have been doing S&S for over 3 years. I bought a barbell about 2 years ago and have been doing deadlifts (inspired by PTTP) with it and also kettlebell military presses (inspired by PTTP but also ETK) quite often although not following a real program for these, for the past 2 years.

In any case, what I want to do is to get my press up to 48kg, which is a Strong First goal for kettlebell pressing. I'd like to also get my deadlift up higher. This would involve having some kind of plan besides Grease the Groove type random training on non-S&S days. I am well aware of what S&S type power and mobility strength grants me in life and judo, but I am very curious about what more slow, heavy strength feels like and also how it will affect my judo.

I deadlift 370lbs for 2-3 singles at a time with a rest of a few minutes between each. For kettlebell military presses I press the 32kg bell for sets of 3 reps. When more into pressing I have pressed it up to 6 reps before. I can press 32 doubles once, although when more into it I could do it 3 times. I have pressed the 40kg before for 1 rep with both arms.

I'm wondering if anyone might have some advice on sets/reps how often a week to do deadlifts and presses in order to get better at them.

Why am I asking this? My big goal for a while was to get to using only the 40kg bell for S&S, and since I've gotten there I don't mind trying to add other kinds of strength. My ultimate goal for S&S is of course Sinister.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
How much training resource do you have available -- i.e. what are your non-negotiable "I'm still going to do x and y this many times per week (judo, S&S, walking, etc.)"?

For how many weeks are you willing to free up some training/recovery resource in order to dedicate a significant portion of your resources to a strength program?
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
How much training resource do you have available -- i.e. what are your non-negotiable "I'm still going to do x and y this many times per week (judo, S&S, walking, etc.)"?

For how many weeks are you willing to free up some training/recovery resource in order to dedicate a significant portion of your resources to a strength program?
Judo is 3 times a week.
If I have to give up S&S for a while in order to properly do slow strength training, I'm up for that. If I never do the slow heavy stuff I'll never know what it's like.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
Judo is 3 times a week.
If I have to give up S&S for a while in order to properly do slow strength training, I'm up for that. If I never do the slow heavy stuff I'll never know what it's like.
That sounds workable. Ideally if the level of effort in your 3x/week judo is something you are adapted to, and therefore doesn't require much recovery, you should do OK running a strength program along with it. Yes, I'd recommend dropping S&S for the time you're running the strength program. (Yes, you can do S&S along with strength program as it says in the book, but the scenario that would support is a bit different.)

I can't vouch directly for the Reload program because I haven't done it, but I think it's a good fit for you.

Is there a paper edition to buy or is it only online?
It is $6 to purchase the .pdf. You can print the .pdf on your own if you want. The programming instructions are in there and there are already some threads with questions asked/answered.

You can run Reload with any number of lifts, 2-5. In your case you might want to run it with deadlift and press. If you have a rack, you could also do bench press and squat.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
That sounds workable. Ideally if the level of effort in your 3x/week judo is something you are adapted to, and therefore doesn't require much recovery, you should do OK running a strength program along with it. Yes, I'd recommend dropping S&S for the time you're running the strength program. (Yes, you can do S&S along with strength program as it says in the book, but the scenario that would support is a bit different.)

I can't vouch directly for the Reload program because I haven't done it, but I think it's a good fit for you.



It is $6 to purchase the .pdf. You can print the .pdf on your own if you want. The programming instructions are in there and there are already some threads with questions asked/answered.

You can run Reload with any number of lifts, 2-5. In your case you might want to run it with deadlift and press. If you have a rack, you could also do bench press and squat.
Okay. I need to do all of this and I will do all of this. I'm thrilled I can stay within the Strong First framework as it's what I understand and trust (not at all to detract from other systems with different underlying philosophies). This is all quite exciting, actually.

It might make sense to still do a few swings just to keep the movement going.
 

Sean M

Level 6 Valued Member
I am sure it would. However, the Reload programming does not apply to KBs - that's just what I meant to say :)
I think if @Kozushi did Reload for deadlift and military press (if he has a stand or rack for the presses) he could hit both his goals.

If he can do sets of 1-3 with 2x32kg now, I bet he can probably do 80kg military press for 5x5 in week 4. If he worked up to 2x2 @ 90kg in week 7, I bet he could one-arm press the Beast in week 8.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
  1. Do you guys recommend barbell presses or kettlebell presses to get to the beast press?
  2. Is it better to use doubles starting with two 32s, or should I be using a single kettlebell?
  3. Should I use the Reload template for the kettlebell press, or something else, like the ROP format???

I bought Reload yesterday and started reading it. It's all new stuff for me. Very interesting, and I'm quite excited about starting!

I'll take my 1RM for deadlift to be 370lbs. 80% of that is 320lbs. So it's 5X5 at that weight the first week, and then adding on 10lbs each week. For week 6 @ 380lbs it's 3X3 and for week 7 it's 2X2 @ 390lbs. Wow! Just thinking about the volume involved, I'll be getting super strong and fit! I'm quite pumped for this!

For the presses, well, I have 2 32kg kettlebells (and 2 24s as well, but I've put them away), 1 40kg and one 48kg beast. I can also use my bar of course, although if it isn't necessary, I'm happy to just stick with the kettlebells.

All very interesting and I can't even imagine to what other accomplishments this will lead me!
 
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Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Reload sounds reasonable for your DL plans. It migh even work with one S+S day per week.

However, it is not a good fit for your KB pressing plans. Maybe this on is a better fit: My Journey to the Beast: Pressing a 48kg Kettlebell | StrongFirst
The article presents a tweaked version of ROP. Perhaps it would be logical for me to start with an ROP pressing regimen beginning with the 32, and to see where this leads me. I have already pressed the 40kg bell cold a few times in the past without training specifically for it. It might be that with just the basic ROP pressing program I'll get to the beast fairly quickly.

I'll have to see how my body is feeling, but if I can I'd of course want to maintain S&S in some way or other. S&S is very flexible. I could just drop down from 40kg to 32kg for it, which for me feels like a pretty light workout. The 32 is light for me now for S&S.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
I love the combination of a 1-armed press and a 2-armed barbell deadlift.

Reload gives some details of testing to determine your working weights and the jumps between them. I would read what Fabio has to say on the subject before beginning, and do any additional testing necessary.

And it goes without saying that PlanStrong is brilliant. I've been programming myself for that way for the last few months and it is time-consuming just to work out what I'm supposed to be doing, but I am very please with the results thus far. Because I haven't been competing in the last few months and don't have anything scheduled, I'm going to do a 1RM test at home on Saturday and am looking forward it already.

-S-
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I love the combination of a 1-armed press and a 2-armed barbell deadlift.

Reload gives some details of testing to determine your working weights and the jumps between them. I would read what Fabio has to say on the subject before beginning, and do any additional testing necessary.

And it goes without saying that PlanStrong is brilliant. I've been programming myself for that way for the last few months and it is time-consuming just to work out what I'm supposed to be doing, but I am very please with the results thus far. Because I haven't been competing in the last few months and don't have anything scheduled, I'm going to do a 1RM test at home on Saturday and am looking forward it already.

-S-
I just finished reading Reload a little while ago. I might get my actual 1RM maximum wrong, but I'll assume it's 370lbs because that's the heaviest I've ever lifted, which is also what I lift these days for singles. So, I'll take it down 50lbs and then do the one day a week plan as the book explains, increasing weight by 10lbs a week etc... For the kettlebell press I may as well just do the ROP method of C&P in ladders 3X a week. If I'm up to it, I'll throw in an S&S session or two every week, if I can handle it also. In any case, I need to get to at least a 2X bodyweight deadlift, which is 440lbs, or frankly if I can get to 420lbs, which is all the weight I have at home at the moment, that's probably fine after which I can maintain it somehow (not sure how that's done yet, actually.) I'd like to maintain a beast press also.

In any case, I think with these goals met and maintained I'll be able to keep myself very strong, which is the whole point of this stuff, and I can have fun applying the strength in judo.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@Kozushi, if the most you've ever lifted is 370 lbs., and you lift 370 lbs. regularly, you simply have never truly tested your 1RM before. Based on this:

I might get my actual 1RM maximum wrong, but I'll assume it's 370lbs because that's the heaviest I've ever lifted, which is also what I lift these days for singles. So, I'll take it down 50lbs
I think you might be mistaken. If I read the above correctly, you're planning to use 320, not 370, as your 1RM. I wouldn't do that. I've done sessions - in other lifts, not the DL - where I'm taken a near-max weight and done 5 singles with 3-5 minutes rest between them. That's not a true 1RM, either, but it was close. I'd say around 95% as a guess.

My own intuition, based on reading your posts, is that your true 1RM is higher than 370, and that six months of consistent deadlift training will find your 1RM is at least 450.

Reload has detailed guidance for max testing - you could do a max test as the book suggests, or use 370, but I wouldn't go lower.

-S-
 
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