I'd like to get more serious with slow strength

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
Sorry, I speak French all day and I don't always make my writing clear in English. Sorry.

Yes, my 1RM is probably higher than 370lbs. I actually tend to do a set of 2 reps with it followed by one or two singles, and then my body feels like it has had enough for a while. To play it safe I may as well assume 370 is my 1RM for now and to start the program at 320lbs. The book says if I find I get to my supposed 1RM for the 5X5 then find it easy the next week at 10lbs higher that I can even extend the cycle a week if I wish to.

I haven't properly started the program yet but as a kind of test of what I could do I did two sets of 5 reps with the 320 and it went fairly well. I think I put a 5 minute rest between the sets, which is in line with the book. I could tell that doing another 3 sets of 5 reps would certainly count as a workout, hahaha!

I also experimented with kettlebell presses. I did a few ladders of 3 C&P with the 32, then a few sets of 3 reps without the cleans in between, then I gave it a rest and easily did a rep with the 40 for each hand. I don't get the impression it will take long to get to a beast press. I suppose I ought to film it when I do and post it, since it's some kind of SF goal I think.

Evidently 3 years+ of S&S which I now do at the 40kg weight has done a lot for my pressing, as the book says it should. Deadlifts are a different story, but S&S has definitely given me something towards this too.

I can't imagine not doing S&S once a week though, so we'll see what happens as I work on the deadlift and the press.
 

Bro Mo

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I'll take my 1RM for deadlift to be 370lbs. 80% of that is 320lbs. So it's 5X5 at that weight the first week, and then adding on 10lbs each week. For week 6 @ 380lbs it's 3X3 and for week 7 it's 2X2 @ 390lbs. Wow! Just thinking about the volume involved, I'll be getting super strong and fit! I'm quite pumped for this!
So, I'll take it down 50lbs and then do the one day a week plan as the book explains, increasing weight by 10lbs a week etc
This doesn't sound like the correct process from the book to me. It should look more like:
  1. Find max 1RM
  2. Find max reps at 80% of 1RM
  3. Use intensity/progression tables from book to create calculated 8 week plan
 

Antti

More than 2500 posts
Back when I started deadlifting, it felt like the serious deadlift training made my swings far better and easier, and did it really fast, much more than what I would have managed had I only done the swings.
 

Sean M

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
@Kozushi Read the book again carefully. Proper loading, especially an accurate 1RM, is the “special sauce” of the whole thing.

I bet your 1RM is already 405, but you should test it one day soon. 65% of that is the light day 5x5.

Then a few days later test max reps at 80% of your recent tested 1RM. Consult the table to determine the poundage increases you will schedule. More reps means smaller increases, less reps means bigger increases.

Then the next day work up to a 5-rep max. That is your week 4 weight (for 5 sets of 5). Fill out the rest of the table back and forward from that week 4 figure.

There is another recent thread about Reload you should check out too.
 

Bro Mo

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
5/3/1 offers a rep method for determining 1RM too.

(Weight * reps * 0.0333) + Weight = 1RM

It's pretty close in my experience. Deadlifts need to be in the lower rep ranges (2-8) so grip endurance doesn't influence the number of reps.
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Back when I started deadlifting, it felt like the serious deadlift training made my swings far better and easier, and did it really fast, much more than what I would have managed had I only done the swings.
The Foundation of Power is Strength

The initial key to increasing Power is to increase Limit Strength.

However, one enhances the other...

Plyometric Bench Press Training For More Strength and Power
Plyometric bench training for 1rm increases

"Power = Force X Distance/Time

Since the terms force and strength are often used interchangeably and distance divided by time is the same thing as speed, power can more simply be defined as strength multiplied by speed. Therefore,

Strength x Speed = POWER.

Since strength and speed are components of power, increasing one while neglecting the other limits total power development. Unfortunately, many players focus on strength because they are familiar with this traditional and well-established mode of training. Because strength and speed have a multiplicative impact on power, athletes can make greater gains if they develop both components. For example, if an arbitrary strength score for an athlete was 2, and the athlete's arbitrary speed score also was 2, the hypothetical power rating would be:

2 x 2 = 4

Doubling strength without altering speed would double power:

4 x 2 = 8

If the same athlete made only a 50 percent gain in strength and an equal gain
in speed, the power rating would be:

3 x 3 = 9" (Brittenham, 1997)"

Summary

1) Increasing Limits Strength will increase Power.

2) Increasing Power will increase Limit Strength.

Kenny Croxdale

 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
The Foundation of Power is Strength

The initial key to increasing Power is to increase Limit Strength.

However, one enhances the other...

Plyometric Bench Press Training For More Strength and Power
Plyometric bench training for 1rm increases

"Power = Force X Distance/Time

Since the terms force and strength are often used interchangeably and distance divided by time is the same thing as speed, power can more simply be defined as strength multiplied by speed. Therefore,

Strength x Speed = POWER.

Since strength and speed are components of power, increasing one while neglecting the other limits total power development. Unfortunately, many players focus on strength because they are familiar with this traditional and well-established mode of training. Because strength and speed have a multiplicative impact on power, athletes can make greater gains if they develop both components. For example, if an arbitrary strength score for an athlete was 2, and the athlete's arbitrary speed score also was 2, the hypothetical power rating would be:

2 x 2 = 4

Doubling strength without altering speed would double power:

4 x 2 = 8

If the same athlete made only a 50 percent gain in strength and an equal gain
in speed, the power rating would be:

3 x 3 = 9" (Brittenham, 1997)"

Summary

1) Increasing Limits Strength will increase Power.

2) Increasing Power will increase Limit Strength.

Kenny Croxdale
Excellent information as always, Kenny. Thank you.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
Sorry, I speak French all day and I don't always make my writing clear in English. Sorry.
No worries!

Yes, my 1RM is probably higher than 370lbs. I actually tend to do a set of 2 reps with it followed by one or two singles, and then my body feels like it has had enough for a while. To play it safe I may as well assume 370 is my 1RM for now and to start the program at 320lbs.
You won't hurt yourself this way, for sure.

This doesn't sound like the correct process from the book to me. It should look more like:
  1. Find max 1RM
  2. Find max reps at 80% of 1RM
  3. Use intensity/progression tables from book to create calculated 8 week plan
Yes, but ... I think he's being very conservative, and my 1RM calculator says 320 is 80% of 360, not 370, but since all the numbers are low, I don't think it's going to be a problem.

@Kozushi, I will suggest, however, that after this first cycle, you follow the program "by the book" and do another one with proper calculations. I think we can categorize what @Kozushi is doing here much like, for me, it might be for someone to use a lighter-than-suggested weight for a first run through the Rite of Passage, to be followed by a real test and a second run with a real weight. I've done that and found it to be helpful, and @Kozushi hasn't had a lot of experience with structured, limit-strength-focused programs.

@Kozushi, I look forward to your reports and to hearing about your progress.

-S-
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
No worries!


You won't hurt yourself this way, for sure.


Yes, but ... I think he's being very conservative, and my 1RM calculator says 320 is 80% of 360, not 370, but since all the numbers are low, I don't think it's going to be a problem.

@Kozushi, I will suggest, however, that after this first cycle, you follow the program "by the book" and do another one with proper calculations. I think we can categorize what @Kozushi is doing here much like, for me, it might be for someone to use a lighter-than-suggested weight for a first run through the Rite of Passage, to be followed by a real test and a second run with a real weight. I've done that and found it to be helpful, and @Kozushi hasn't had a lot of experience with structured, limit-strength-focused programs.

@Kozushi, I look forward to your reports and to hearing about your progress.

-S-
Okay, so I'll do the 5X5 today. I'll try at first with 340lbs to start. It'll take a while I guess. Afterwards I'll do some kettlebell presses with mainly the 32 to "fill in the gaps" left by the deadlifts. I'll add 10lbs for next Saturdayto the deadlifts and continue like this. The presses I'll do throughout the week, and if possible some S&S sessions.

I think at some point one just has to get serious about lifting heavier weight. I noticed doing multiple sets and reps with the deadlift earlier in the week that my heart certainly gets a workout with the heavy lifting, so whatever misconception I had that I wouldn't get heart exercise must have been wrong.
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
Hmmm.... Did 2 sets of 5 with the 340lbs bar, according to the technique in the PTTP book, with a short breath at the top, and a very small rest at the bottom to reset between reps. These two sets went well. My instinct on this is that I need to accustom myself to this move a bit before getting into the Reload regimen. It's like going for a walk after no walking all winter - there are numerous new muscles being stimulated with the deadlift. Did some presses afterwards.

My instinct, if I can trust it, is to do something like this nearly every day for a while to train the movement and to get some undeveloped muscles to catch up with the rest.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
@Kozushi, it sounds like you know your body. Do what seems right to you, but when you decide to tackle Reload, do you very best to follow all the instructions it gives.

If you're doing presses and deadlifts, my personal preference is to press first and deadlift second. A body tired from heavy deadlifts can have trouble manufacturing the necessary tension to perform overhead presses. The opposite order has always worked better for me - the press takes less away from the deadlift than the deadlift takes away from the press. That has been my experience.

-S-
 

Bro Mo

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Okay, so I'll do the 5X5 today. I'll try at first with 340lbs to start.
340 is > 80% of your 1RM and reload starts with 60-75% of 1RM. Even with endurance of more than 10 reps at 80%, you would start the cycle closer to 300lbs with 10lb jumps.
My instinct, if I can trust it, is to do something like this nearly every day for a while...
2x5 daily @ 85% 1RM doesnt seem like "slow strength" to me.
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
340 is > 80% of your 1RM and reload starts with 60-75% of 1RM. Even with endurance of more than 10 reps at 80%, you would start the cycle closer to 300lbs with 10lb jumps.

2x5 daily @ 85% 1RM doesnt seem like "slow strength" to me.
I did another 5 reps afterwards making 15 yesterday. Still far off the 5X5 Reload involves. 340lbs was just too hard for that. I made it to 3X5 with the 320lbs two days earlier. It would have to be 300lbs to see myself doing 5X5. I'll give myself a day or two rest and then start again, this time with 5X5 at 300lbs. I think I could do that, and then do the 10lbs jumps per week. 340 was just too heavy.
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
@Kozushi, it sounds like you know your body. Do what seems right to you, but when you decide to tackle Reload, do you very best to follow all the instructions it gives.

If you're doing presses and deadlifts, my personal preference is to press first and deadlift second. A body tired from heavy deadlifts can have trouble manufacturing the necessary tension to perform overhead presses. The opposite order has always worked better for me - the press takes less away from the deadlift than the deadlift takes away from the press. That has been my experience.

-S-
No, I was just discouraged that I couldn't do 5X5 at 340lbs. I'll start over in a couple of days fresh with 300lbs and I'll see if I can do 5X5 with that. I suspect so, actually.

I didn't know that about the presses. I'll do them first then. I had no idea about that.

If Reload is only once a week (since I'm only doing deadlifts) I can keep doing S&S I think. I'm pretty confident I can get my press up to beast fairly soon.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
@Kozushi, please follow Reload per instructions using your 370 lb. 1RM, and don't go heavier. I thought that, by using 370 as your 1RM, you'd be going on the light side, which is fine. Please do not go heavier than the plan calls for.

-S-
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
@Kozushi, please follow Reload per instructions using your 370 lb. 1RM, and don't go heavier. I thought that, by using 370 as your 1RM, you'd be going on the light side, which is fine. Please do not go heavier than the plan calls for.

-S-
Thank you. I think I misread some of the other posts here speculating my max as 405 and such.

I'm determined to make this work. This is important.
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
Alright, so here are my calculations:

1RM is 370lbs
80% is 296lbs

So, I tested how many perfect reps I could do at 300lbs, and it's 5.

According to the chart on page 11 I need to start at 60% of 1RM which is 222lbs,

and increase by 5% of 1RM a week, which is by 18.5lbs.

So, here is the chart for the weekly session:

1. 5X5 @ 220lbs
2. 5X5 @ 240lbs
3. 5X5 @ 260lbs
4. 5X5 @ 280lbs
5. 5X5 @ 300lbs
6. 3X3 @320lbs
7. 2X2 @340lbs
8. test for new 1RM (so I test 380lbs or 390lbs or 400lbs?)

Is this right?
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
If you've followed the instructions, it's right. :)

I believe detailed instructions are given for testing your 1RM - follow those, too, please.

-S-
 
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