Kettlebell Ideal kgs for grapplers?

[Mark Limbaga]

My humble 2 cents is if you have ample mat time, can complete the simple standard and do all the sfg level 1 skills tests, you already have a solid base

 

[Megatonsunshine]

The great Stew McGill says there are no two ways about it, heavier weights require a certain inflexible stiffness. There's no getting around it. You have to sacrifice one for the other.

Again - i very much doubt that McGill spoke these words, "you have to sacrifice one for the other", he speaks about stiffness often in relation to being able to tighten supporting musculature to create the proper structure for lifting heavy weights safely, but inflexible stiffness is a term of strength it is not a term that means a lack of overall flexibility. You do not need to sacrifice your flexibility in order to lift heavy.

And yes Kyrinov, i recognize that the split doesnt translate directly to flexibility necessary for grappling, my point is that the OP's assumption that getting stronger through handling greater resistance will automatically limit his ability to be flexible is faulty reasoning. There is no scientific evidence showing that correlation and the picture of the bodybuilder doing the split is tongue in cheek jab at that theory.

Here it is.

"I'm not one of those guys that add mobility for the heck of it. If you're carrying a big load, you gotta be stiff"

 

[Tony Gracia]

@Megatonsunshine the patient in that video is Brian Carroll, a top powerlifter who has squatted (in gear) over 1,000 lbs. That is not even close to "normal" strong and he is so far to one end of the bell curve that it isn't really that comparable for the rest of us. Scroll towards the bottom of this page to see his background:

Ten/Twenty/Life :: Learn How to Maximize Your Strength for Life

Yes, to squat over 1,000 lbs you need a LOT of stiffness and don't need any EXTRA mobility than what it takes to get to legal depth ... but you still do need enough mobility to get down there.

 

[Steve W.]

I think that McGill is often misinterpreted because so much of his approach and so much of what he says is context dependent.

To conclude from that video clip that you shouldn't swing a 40kg kettlebell if you are a grappler is quite a leap. My takeaway from the clip is that you shouldn't blindly train mobility without a specific purpose if you are an elite powerlifter.

 

[Tony Gracia]

@Steve W. I think that is spot on. I got to see him speak in person in August and if you have the full context of what he is saying, and who he is speaking about, then it makes a lot of sense. If you just try to take a random clip here and there without the full picture, it is very easy to jump to unjustified conclusions. He made similar statements about athletes that require a lot of stretch reflex / spring / recoil such as sprinters, jumpers, basketball players etc. Mindlessly "stretching" them without purpose can sometimes result in them losing their much needed "springiness" and make them worse instead of better. However, for someone else with a different body type and different goals, it may do wonders. It needs to be case by case.

 

[Megatonsunshine]

@Megatonsunshine the patient in that video is Brian Carroll, a top powerlifter who has squatted (in gear) over 1,000 lbs. That is not even close to "normal" strong and he is so far to one end of the bell curve that it isn't really that comparable for the rest of us. Scroll towards the bottom of this page to see his background:

Ten/Twenty/Life :: Learn How to Maximize Your Strength for Life

Yes, to squat over 1,000 lbs you need a LOT of stiffness and don't need any EXTRA mobility than what it takes to get to legal depth ... but you still do need enough mobility to get down there.

Thanks for the reply. It is very likely I missed context, but like i said I've heard him say elsewhere before in varying contexts that strength and flexibility are negotiated depending on activity. Too much flexibility can hinder certain activities, while building too much strength, the same. I just provided the video as to one particular context.

In fact, since I started strength training (not S&S), I found my Jiu jitsu to be less fluid and smooth - I've since developed way more tension and relied way more on strength while rolling, than before when i had to be softer, more aware and quicker vs people stronger than me.

Nonetheless, since I started S&S I think I've gotten a some of the 'feel' back, and what seems like better joint connectivity. So I sort of relate to what Kyrinov was mentioning - choosing between the afferent (feeling) pathways and the efferent (doing) pathways.

I'm also curious why the article on this forum would specifically mention that grapplers and MMA types should do 32kg, when everyone else here says, "poppycock!!". Then why even the mention in the article. Something to at least consider?

 

[Steve Freides]

Too much flexibility can hinder certain activities, while building too much strength, the same.

It's important to remember that "too much" here depends on many variables and, for most people, it's _not_ an issue. I think it's probably safe to say that for _all_ people whose goals are general health and fitness and do not include a sport, it's simply a non-issue - become as strong and as flexible as you can.

Let's take but one example, since I am just back from Flexible Steel in Italy, namely @Jon Engum Master SFG . Jon could, without a doubt, do serious bodily harm to most of us before we'd even know what happened - he's a fighter. He is able to press a Beast and able to sit in a front split then press a heavy bell over his head. And I had a chance to watch some of his footwork this weekend - he is extremely quick and agile. So it is possible to have it all.

In fact, since I started strength training (not S&S), I found my Jiu jitsu to be less fluid and smooth - I've since developed way more tension and relied way more on strength while rolling, than before when i had to be softer, more aware and quicker vs people stronger than me.

Nonetheless, since I started S&S I think I've gotten a some of the 'feel' back, and what seems like better joint connectivity.

S&S is a brilliant design.

-S-

 

[Keep Lifting]

Thanks for the reply. It is very likely I missed context, but like i said I've heard him say elsewhere before in varying contexts that strength and flexibility are negotiated depending on activity. Too much flexibility can hinder certain activities, while building too much strength, the same. I just provided the video as to one particular context.

In fact, since I started strength training (not S&S), I found my Jiu jitsu to be less fluid and smooth - I've since developed way more tension and relied way more on strength while rolling, than before when i had to be softer, more aware and quicker vs people stronger than me.

Nonetheless, since I started S&S I think I've gotten a some of the 'feel' back, and what seems like better joint connectivity. So I sort of relate to what Kyrinov was mentioning - choosing between the afferent (feeling) pathways and the efferent (doing) pathways.

I'm also curious why the article on this forum would specifically mention that grapplers and MMA types should do 32kg, when everyone else here says, "poppycock!!". Then why even the mention in the article. Something to at least consider?

Read Pavel Macek's article in on this site, called Preparing an MMA Fighter, Preparing an MMA Fighter - StrongFirst - his trainee practices with 40-44kg bells - there is no ideal weight for a sport, weight is determined by the objectives, training and patience of the individual.