IF and Keto diet advice

Rbt

Level 1 Valued Member
Hi everyone,
I was just looking for some help with getting on a Keto / IF diet. I have tried "Eat Stop Eat" but found i just gorged myself after fasting for that long. Does anyone know of any good diet books to get? I've been practicing S&S and other kettlebell exercises for a few years but can't seem to get the diet right.
Thanks in advance!
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
I was just looking for some help with getting on a Keto / IF diet. I have tried "Eat Stop Eat" but found i just gorged myself after fasting for that long.
Eat, Stop, Eat

Pilon's Intermittent Fasting Book is a good book.

Gorging After Fasting

What leads you to view that as an issue?

How many kcals are you consuming during your gorge?

What is your objective with Intermittent Fasting and the Ketogenic Diet?

The Ketogenic Bible
https://www.amazon.com/Ketogenic-Bible-Authoritative-Guide-Ketosis/dp/1628601043

This is one of the best books on the Ketogenic Diet.

Does anyone know of any good diet books to get?
Good Diet Books

Your question is vague. This take us back to, "What is your diet objective".

Kenny Croxdale
 

Harry Westgate

Level 6 Valued Member
Recommended reading from me are 'The Warrior Diet' and 'The 7 Principles of Stress' by Ori Hofmekler for guidance on fasting. Read the books, and pay attention to the details; the Warrior Diet is not just a 20/4 IF regime as often stated on the internet.

I'm not the best person to ask about strict keto as I've personally never been able to maintain it, but as an alternative I would also recommend 'The 4-Hour Body,' by Tim Ferriss, particularly the chapter on the Slow Carb Diet (you can also find most of the info through Google).

While I don't technically follow Tim's Slow Carb Diet, I do utilise many of his food choices alongside a Warrior Diet schedule, and the results have been great in terms of dropping fat and feeling good in general.

Additionally, if you are contemplating keto, I would recommend you watch this video as well:

 
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Waryrenn

Level 5 Valued Member
I think gorging oneself post-fast is a fairly typical part of the learning and adaption process. Be kind to yourself as you learn. If, in the beginning, you ever break your fast with carbs, then be prepared to unleash a unstoppable chomping machine!
On the other hand, cook something for yourself and fasting can gift you some of the best tasting meals of the year. My memories of one blue cheese mushrooms snack still brings tears to my eyes :)
Eventually your body starts telling you to fast, in the same way it feels natural to be hungry sometimes, you might start to feel "fast-y" too.
 

Waryrenn

Level 5 Valued Member
Another thought: fasting seemed to put my salt balance out of whack. Find good quality salts. Sometimes I now get rehydration sachets, which are salts / minerals and this seems to help, but certainly not essential.

Good luck with keto, from what I understand it is beneficial, but it only really accessible long-term for people who have consistent control over a lot of environmental factors. So give it a fair try, but don't judge yourself too harsh if it isn't sustainable for you at this point.
 
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kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
only really accessible long-term for people who have consistent control over a lot of environmental factors
Long Term Ketogenic Diet

The success of the Ketogenic Diet, any diet, has less to do with "...control over...environmental factors." That is more of an excuse without merit than a fact.

The success of the any diet has more to do with...

"Where there's a will, there is a way."

An individual who's motivated has the drive to "Make it happen".

"Plan Your Work, Work Your Plan"

Planning allows you to override environmental factors rather than being at their mercy.

Good Examples

My success in being on the Ketogenic Diet is driven my a metabolic condition that motivates me.

My success is due to me overriding environmental factors is by planning. I either take "Keto Food" with me or research a list of restaurants menu's in the area that provide me with "Keto Friendly" food.

I don't leave anything to chance or having environmental factors decide my fate, as many do.

Bad Example

My nephew is on and off the Ketogenic Diet due to no planning. He doesn't take "Keto Food" with him. He has no idea of what restaurants menu's in the area are "Keto Friendly. He isn't motivated enough to do what it takes.

He is left to chance, showing up and hoping for the best. He allows his environment to control him rather than controlling his environment. That method ensure failure.

...but don't judge yourself too harsh if it isn't sustainable for you at this point.
Ketogenic Diet Failure

It is a very restrictive, demanding diet plan.

As with anything, the greater the demands, the less likely the majority of individual will be able to maintain it and succeed.

As someone once said, "Successful individual are willing to do what unsuccessful individual won't do."

This take us back to "Motivation". In other words, how much do you want it and what are you willing to do to get it.

Success

When it comes to diets, everything, the primary key is to find something you like and can maintain, long term.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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Abdul-Rasheed

Level 6 Valued Member
As with anything, the greater the demands, the less likely the majority of individual will be able to maintain it and succeed.
As someone once said, "Successful individual are willing to do what unsuccessful individual won't do."
+1

"Every act of willpower is finite. If diet modification becomes an exercise in willpower, we will revert to what we were the instant willpower, a finite mental propellant, exhausts itself. Enthusiasm for the dietary process is what we seek. Dietary enthusiasm occurs when we love the diet foods we eat and the dieter sees actual results – tangible, measurable, quantifiable results. Results from nutrition can be defined as a dramatic decrease in body fat and/or a dramatic increase in lean muscle mass. Become leaner and more muscular and automatically attain a significant improvement in performance. Willpower is finite mental propellant; enthusiasm is infinite and self-regenerating, akin to mental solar power." -Marty Gallagher from the link below, bold mine.

Nuts & Bolts Part 4 Ultra-basics: Goal Setting

I remember reading something along the lines of willpower, then enthusiasm, then finally momentum, from the same author's writing elsewhere.
 
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Deleted member 5559

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My current perspective on nutrition is using a leading indicator of a daily checklist. After completing one, I can move onto another item. I know if I've succeeded everyday if I check off everything on the list. A lagging indicator is body composition and performance and much more difficult goal to obtain and metric to monitor.
  1. Drink water, metabolism will not occur without water
  2. Fast until some walking or low intensity LSD cardio has accumulated for the day
  3. Fruits and vegetables as a first meal
  4. Earn remaining carbohydrates after training intensely enough to require them or recover from other stress
  5. Get enough fat to promote hormone health
  6. Eat enough protein to repair any damage
 

Snowman

Level 6 Valued Member
Dietary enthusiasm occurs when we love the diet foods we eat and the dieter sees actual results
I would second this. I don't have much in the way of current dietary goals, besides just staying in more or less the physical condition that I'm currently in. I do, however, do a fair amount of dietary experimentation. I often plan to do experiments for a given amount of time, and then end up running long or cutting it short based on what happens. I never got around to doing any long term (multiple months) experiments with high volumes of veggies, because I never felt any different after the first few weeks, and there was a constant strain on my willpower due to the extra financial cost and time spent in the kitchen. The strains weren't that significant, but over time they combined with the lack of results and a long term experiment never ended up happening. The opposite happened with intermittent fasting and the carnivore diet. I started to experiment with IF towards the end of 2014, and found that 1) it was easy hell, and 2) it gave me an incredible degree of freedom from needing to eat at a specific time. The carnivore diet was suppose to be a 30 day experiment this January to test how difficult it was (I wasn't even sure if I would make the whole month, since it was so restrictive). It turns out that my body responded incredibly well to it, and I found that I was very happy eating lots of steak, eggs, and bacon. I don't know for sure how long I'll keep it up, but it's been six months and it takes no effort for me to stick to it.

I'm not trying to convince you to do IF or carnivore; keto is a tried and true approach that has worked for many people and there's no reason to think you'll be any different. My point is simply this: don't be afraid to move around within the bounds of the keto diet. Try things for long enough to get a good idea of their pros and cons, then let things stick or fall away as they may. Of course, the only way to do that is to educate yourself, and the resources that have been suggested seem like a great place to start. There are also a great many YouTube talks and podcasts with people like Robb Wolf, Ben Bikman, and many others. As @kennycro@@aol.com pointed out, the question is "how much do you want it?" If you want it enough to keep trying until you find a way that works for you, then you'll be fine.
 

Bret S.

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I started to experiment with IF towards the end of 2014, and found that 1) it was easy hell, and 2) it gave me an incredible degree of freedom from needing to eat at a specific time.
Luckily I'm one of those people that have a 'fast metabolism' and don't need to 'diet', however I use IF often and love coffee. It's a killer combo and it's very effective. Going from last nights meal to sometimes 4:00 the next day without eating is pretty easy if you work into it slowly. I don't have hunger pangs much but if I do it means I didn't eat enough the night before. After a weekend I'll usually have an extended fast on Mon as I eat more and 'different' on the weekends.
Training in a fasted state is not a problem as your body adapts to fat burning and becomes much more efficient at it, in my experience this process doesn't take long. I'll eat carbs at night after a heavy training session and usually a protein and veggie dinner after a light one supplemented with some nuts. Snacks at night are usually popcorn, nuts and dark chocolate (my nemesis along with potato chips). First meal is usually 4-6 HB eggs and a bowl of oatmeal with coconut oil and frozen organic blueberries.
Days where I'm doing more physical work I'll eat more and other days less, kind of instinctual eating..
 
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Whiskey_Fox

Level 3 Valued Member
I second The Ketogenic Bible, plus I would recommend The Keto Reset Diet.
I have to second Pavels recommendation for the Keto Reset Diet. Also another good Keto reference is Mark Sisson’s “Primal Endurance” which talks more about how the body adapts to fat for fuel and pairing it with the Keto diet.
I too had the same struggles with regular IF while consuming starchy carbohydrates. I’ve then decided to switch to Keto. Been going strong for the last 4 weeks.
My favorite thing about Keto is feeling satiated after each meal without having to gorge on junk food. It really is changing my life for the better.
-WF
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
When I was younger I had pretty good results from doing an Anabolic diet intermittent fasting hybrid
 
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