Nutrition IF/Warrior Diet/etc Schedule options

[Antti]

How do you like to limit your eating time?

I have noticed that I naturally gravitate towards eating the most of my daily food quite early and in a rather condensed time period. It has led me to wonder if I could become more organized about it and start doing some manner of intermittent fasting in hopes of accelerating the improvement of my body composition.

However, about every example of IF I have seen seems to recommend skipping at least the breakfast and maybe the lunch as well, and having the eating window late.

Anybody do IF or such and have the eating window in the morning or around the typical lunch time? Maybe something like 10-18 or 12-16? What kind of downsides can you see in such a schedule?

One thing that's bad in such a setting is if I'm forced to train late and I would like to eat afterwards.

 

[jef]

Personally, I don't go crazy with IF. I prefer to think of flexible eating.
I have breakfast most of the time, because I love eggs in the morning, with my coffee. Sometimes, I skip it. Although most of the time not. Little detail: breakfast usually do not happen until almost one hour after I wake up.
I then do not eat until dinner.
I am following this pattern for more than 3 years now, and it works pretty well. I am not hungry during the day anymore, I don't lose time for lunch, and I enjoy dinner.
Flexible eating rulez.

 

[Snowman]

I have noticed that I naturally gravitate towards eating the most of my daily food quite early and in a rather condensed time period. It has led me to wonder if I could become more organized about it and start doing some manner of intermittent fasting in hopes of accelerating the improvement of my body composition.

However, about every example of IF I have seen seems to recommend skipping at least the breakfast and maybe the lunch as well, and having the eating window late.

For most people, this is more of a behavioral issue than anythings. Once we start eating, we tend to want to keep eating, so the best thing for most people is to delay their first meal. If that's not the case for you, I very much doubt that there is anything less healthy about only eating breakfast and lunch, compared to only eating lunch and dinner. In fact, I know there's one or two people on this forum (though I forget who; hopefully they'll weigh in) who have done just what your talking about and done well with it.

What kind of downsides can you see in such a schedule?

Only this one that you point out...

One thing that's bad in such a setting is if I'm forced to train late and I would like to eat afterwards.

It sounds like this isn't something that happens very often. If it happens less than 2 or 3 times a week, I wouldn't worry about it. After you train, go ahead and eat a good post-training meal. One where the plants look like plants and the meat looks like meat. It might slow progress a bit, but I wouldn't predict any long-term issues with it. If you know it's going to be a late training day, you could do like @jef, eating one meal at each end of the day. Still perhaps not all the benefits of a 16 hour fast, but 2 meals will still stimulate the metabolism better than 3.

 

[Neuro-Bob]

I believe what’s important is how long you fasted total, as opposed to what time you did.

However there is some research (by whom?) about keeping to circadian rhythms, like only eating sunrise to sunset. The theory is that the body reacts differently to food outside of that window.

Having done lots of IF last year, I gravitated towards dinner since that is the one meal I always shared with my wife. However my favorite foods are all breakfast foods (we differentiate foods/time of day in the US), so if I lived in a bubble I would definitely experiment with eating only breakfast.

Historically many cultures had their largest meal as lunch, so that’s another point in your favor of eating earlier.

It’s mostly about how you feel and what’s sustainable with your body reaction and social life.

 

[KenKennedy]

I have read an argument that relates to the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. The idea is that you should eat the largest meal near the end of the day so that you shift into "rest and digest" before going to bed. With my limited understanding, it makes sense to me.

 

[Marc]

I consider the biggest benefit of IF to be that it suites my day and I don't have to worry about food until I get home.
Doing IF purely for the sake of fasting will probably not do too much in terms of weight loss or body composition. This will be achieved mainly through calorie/macronutrient control. There are some studies that suggest the benefits of fastig and/or time restricted eating but it is not like there is something magical about fasting for x hours and you will lose fat.
However, if you rather like eating more earlier in the day then go for that (personally I sleep very well on a full stomach). Doing what fits your daily schedule and personal preferences is extremely important in achieving your goal. It will have an unproportionally bigger influence than micro managing.

 

[damogari]

Nowadays I am eating two meals, one, lighter on 12, the second one, bigger, on 17-18. I usually train about 16, that's why I prefer meals this way. Lighter meal gives me some energy for training, but not made me digest too long, and post training protein-rich meal can more effectively help with recovery. I usually eat it with my fiancee so it's added bonus.

I used to eat One Meal A Day but my performance during the training sessions was much worse. And I got quickly irritable until I got my meal on the evening. With two meals it is much, much better.

I believe that IF and longer fasts can effectively fight insulin resistance, and if they are used with low carb diet and strength training the effects can be quite impressive.

 

[Steve Freides]

@Antti, your approach, while not as popular has having only a big dinner, is not without its adherents. I don't have time to find a source, but I recall reading that in India, the recommendation was to have a big lunch, to take a nap while lying on your left side, then not to eat for the rest of the day.

Although I generally opt for only a big dinner, yesterday I had lunch with a colleague and it was a big meal for me. I opted to have only a small bowl of yogurt with honey for my "dinner" - the day's rhythm was also fine for me.

Although the timing is different, there is something in common with all these approaches, and that is trying to rest after the large meal. If that's possible for you, that would be my recommendation.

-S-

 

[Oscar]

If Im not mistaken, chimps do some sort of IF, where they eat most their food during the morning. So if you like to compare yourself to our more natural cousins like I do, this would be good guidance.

Also Martin Berkhan of LeanGains says that both alternatives are fine. According to the Leangains page, there is a caveat to training early in the morning and then having your eating window in the evening, for which he suggests to have BCAA before/after training.

I think eating during the moring is very natural and should work great. But, as @Snowman said, Its also more difficult to stop eating once the eating window is open. So for weight loss purposes as yours, maybe having the eating window in the afternoon could work better.

There was also a thread a while back where @mprevost mentioned a study that said something like having the eating window early was better than in the afternoon. You might find this thread interesting: Minimum time for IF benefits

 

[Antti]

Thanks for all the replies and the interesting discussion.

I don't have the problem of starting eating and then feeling like eating until I go to sleep. I just often feel full for the rest of the day after my two or three big meals. If I didn't, I wouldn't really consider a schedule like this an option.

It is true that work/studies/life/whatever the schedule one has, greatly influences the eating. In my previous employment I ate the most during my work, since there was ample time. It felt natural back then. In my current situation it feels good as well and I have the time. My social life doesn't really have an effect on my eating.

I'm not sure how I feel about eating and training. If I train early in the day, I feel like I don't need to eat anything prior. If I train late and I'm tired, I often feel like I should have something simple before training, orange juice or such if nothing else. When it comes to eating after training, in my current schedule I'm typically not hungry after training and I just don't feel like eating anything. But doing a heavy squat session early in the day does has typically made me hungry for the rest of the day. It may be that I should be more regimented and methodical and find out what kind of variance I have in these feelings. Then again, maybe I shouldn't eat based on feel. It hasn't led me to a favourable body composition so far and I'm serious about my training. I think this may be one of the key things.

I have previously noticed, especially when I've been on keto or during my carnivore month, that I find it easier to fall asleep if I've had some carbs in the evening. I'm not sure if it's a problem on the early IF schedule if I don't abstain from the carbs during the day. Something to try out and see. But on the whole I don't feel so groggy or such after even really big meals any more, like I used to. I believe it likely has something to do with exercise; the more, the harder, the better I've trained the better I've become with food. Like I don't get the similar sugar highs anymore either.

I occasionally skip through some research that I run into. When it comes to the diet, I think I remember seeing in multiple sources that the people who eat more during the morning instead of the night, lose more weight when dieting than the ones who do the opposite. Then of course, we have the crowd who snack all night in front of the tv, so I'm not sure if it's a valid comparison.

It may be that I should have a thorough look at my nutrition when it comes to training, what I eat before, during and after. I've typically had a shake afterwards. Maybe I should have something earlier on as well. But there's such a variety of opinions on the matter, it's hard to get to the bottom of it. I thought I'd try for myself and bought my first intra-workout powder can a while ago. I'm not sure how much of an effect it has had. But I understand the top athletes, across fields, are pretty serious about workout nutrition.