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Barbell Importance of strength in judo

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Erik

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Since the quarantine there has not been judo classes and have used that time to build up my strength and conditioning and focus on my enshin karate training a bit more. Double overhand deadlift is merely 350 lbs 170 lbs bodyweight and a weighted chin up of 80 lbs. Pretty close to my 1 rep maxes. Not sure on other lifts. Been private or small classes of only a couple people in judo recently. Feel much stronger, especially in my grip. Now I am training my judo harder pulling back on my strength training a bit but still planning to improve them just at a slower rate. Do not think those are impressive numbers in the lifts but I sure do feel improvement on the mat. Advice is, never neglect your strength training. My opinion is you do not need to be stronger than the other guy but you need to be strong enough not to be overpowered.
 
Hello,

Judo being a weight category sport, all things being equal - meaning technique - the stronger and more endurant is supposed to have an davantage.

However, if max stength or raw strength may be a good thing, perfecting the drills and focusing on mobility (or 'anti-stiffness') is important. This may be espcially true when we do things like DL or OVH. TGU is a different animal because it already incorporates mobility.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Double overhand deadlift is merely 350 lbs 170 lbs bodyweight and a weighted chin up of 80 lbs. Pretty close to my 1 rep maxes. Do not think those are impressive numbers in the lifts...

Stronger Than Most

I spent about two year in Judo. What I found was that very few of those in Judo did much of any Maximum Strength or Power Training.

With that said, you most likely are stronger than most.

My opinion is you do not need to be stronger than the other guy but you need to be strong enough not to be overpowered.

Being Stronger

In Judo, as most sports, "Technique is everything", as per Dr Tom McLaughlin (PhD Exercise Biomechanics).

However, being stronger ensures that you will not be overpowered.

As a Powerlifter who was a lowly Yellow Belt. I was able to get some Brown Belts in an arm bar or chock and tap out. I make a couple of couple of Black Belts lives miserable on the mat before I finally tapped out.

The moral to that story is there is a definite advantage to being stronger.

Power

Judo, as most sports, is a Power Sport.

The foundation of Power is built on Strength. However, as Alan noted, at some point, the focus on only developing Maximum Strength, increasing your 1 Repetition Max in a movement, is counterproductive.

"Lifting Weights Makes You Slower"

There is some validity to this.

Maximum Strength Training causes a shift in the "Super" Fast Type IIb/x Muscle Fiber to the Fast Type IIa Muscle Fiber; Maximum Strength increases while Power and Speed decrease.

Fast Type IIb/x Muscle Fiber are developed with Explosive Movements: Olympic Movements, fairly heavy Kettlebell Swings, etc. In this case, Fast Type IIa Muscle Fiber are converted to "Super" Fast Type iib/x Muscle Fiber.

Maintaining or increasing Maximum Strength and Power is a juggling act.

Judo is reliant on Power. Thus, a well written program for Judo should center around...

Conjugate Training

That means combining different types of Strength Training into the same Program.

In this case, Maximum Strength and Power Training needs to be trained together. One method is to devote one day to Maximum Strength Training and another day to Power Training.

The Poster Children For Conjugate Training

Olympic Lifter are the poster children for Conjugate Training.

Maximum Strength Training with Front Squats, Back Squats, Pressing, etc.

The Olympic Lifts develop their Power.

Judo Is A Pulling Movement

Judo revolves around Pulling Movements; exercises such as the Deadlifts and Chins in your program. These movement primarily develop Maximum Strength; they provide some carry over to Power.

To maximize your Power Development you should consider Olympic Movement (Hi Pull Cleans and Snatches) and fairly heavy Kettlebell Swings.

Strength x Speed = POWER

"Since strength and speed are components of power, increasing one while neglecting the other limits total power development. Unfortunately, many players focus on strength because they are familiar with this traditional and well-established mode of training. Because strength and speed have a multiplicative impact on power, athletes can make greater gains if they develop both components. For example, if an arbitrary strength score for an athlete was 2, and the athlete's arbitrary speed score also was 2, the hypothetical power rating would be:

2 x 2 = 4

Doubling strength without altering speed would double power:

4 x 2 = 8

If the same athlete made only a 50 percent gain in strength and an equal gain in speed, the power rating would be:

3 x 3 = 9"
(Brittenham, 1997) Source: Plyometric bench training for 1rm increases
 
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I notice a significant difference when I'm training with lots of 2 handed swings with the 40kg kettlebell.
 
The ironic thing is Judo was originally founded on the principles of maximum efficiency, balance, timing, and using the opponent's strength and power against him/herself. Apparently Kyuzo Mifune, as an elderly man, was not able to be thrown by younger, bigger, more powerful opponents. There might be some old videos out there.
 
The ironic thing is Judo was originally founded on the principles of maximum efficiency, balance, timing, and using the opponent's strength and power against him/herself. Apparently Kyuzo Mifune, as an elderly man, was not able to be thrown by younger, bigger, more powerful opponents. There might be some old videos out there.

The only kind of martial arts that can disregard almost completely physical attributes are those that teach the use of a weapon. That's a pill hard to swallow.

A six year old kid (that is, a rather small, weak, slow and uncoordinated human being) armed with a scalpel can be VERY dangerous, even if he doesn't know how to use it.

That being said... because we are built to grab and hang from things, we are naturally born grapplers. And grappling competitions are the only ones that have an open category, where a significant percent of lighter fighters win much larger opponents on a regular basis.

Anyway, let's not forget that a giant beast named Bob Sapp, who was absurdly big, strong, slow, uncoordinated and completely ignorant of fighting technique somehow managed to beat Ernest Hoost TWICE (which was a world class superheavyweight kickboxer in striking matches). And it took close to twenty minutes to Minotauro Nogueira (a world class superheavyweight grappler) to finally submit Bob Sapp, and the thing was so, so, so close the Brazilian grappler said there was no way there would be a rematch.
 
I am a black belt judoka (although not a regular on the mat in recent years) and have consistently trained with weights. Sometimes strength gets negative comments in judo and bjj, as if it somehow masks poor technique. It can mask poor technique, but in reality, some technique and some strength is needed to be effective, along with other traits. I was generally physically stronger than my partners but my technique is not fantastic. My flexibility is also limited but as with many things, we can adapt out style to fit. I never reached the top level but I do have a black belt and have won medals in competitions. I also had a session at the Kodokan in December last year and held my own with the black belts during randori even though I had not been on the mat for several years. A lot was due to my strength and conditioning.

I would advise, don't forget the enjoyment of the sport. This will help when things are not going your way!
 
I have been a judoka for many years though I moved mostly to bjj about 6y back due to injuries. Both sports require strength, let’s be real. Skill as I see it is a force multiplier - if u have no strength to multiply you are still not going to do well on the mats. Power is an underrated quality, and in my experience far more important in judo than bjj. I find it really hard to do major throws anymore as I just don’t have the speed but my experience allows me to be successful in minor throws/ashi waza and the like.
That said, if mat mastery is the plan, there must be sufficient skill work. I have seen moderately strong guys crush really strong powerlifter/rugby player types due to the skill differential, again this is probably more prominent in bjj than judo.
My 2c worth.
 
Firas Zahabi has a good shpeal on this topic that I think accurately sums up this discussion. I will try and find it and post it here.

In short, extreme discrepancies aside, skill is always superior to strength. Strength becomes more relevant when opponents have equal skill.

Everyone should have baseline strength. Strength is its own value. However, skill work should never be sacrificed for strength.

If I had to choose between being on the mats and strength training, I would always choose being on the mats, because my primary goal is to be a better grappler and not a lifter, and because I enjoy being on the mats more. Strength is intrinsically valuable and is its own pursuit. It compliments skills and is an aid; it helps to keep me healthy and reduce injury, etc. But after a point there is diminishing return and it can begin to detract from being a good grappler...

The person who has had one week of BJJ training has an advantage over a person who has not had any training, no matter how strong the person is. Obviously, the advantage reduces in proportion to how much stronger and bigger the untrained opponent is, and the advantage is not a guarantee of success, but it is ever present and ever dangerous.

At any rate, I don't think it's a particularly productive exercise to debate what is superior. Every grappler should be stronger as far as I'm concerned, and every strength athlete should learn some grappling, but if your goal is to be a good grappler, you can't do that through lifting weights...you do it by sweating, bleeding and grinding on the mats and loving it. You lift enough weights on the side if you can to achieve and maintain baseline strength, and be a more rounded human being.
 
I believe that strength is important for sports like judo. But you need to train smart.
In my opinion your strength training must be minimalist, in order not to mess with your recovery. You should choose only 3-4 compound lifts and train them 3 times a week.
If i were you, i would do something like that:

Day 1- strength
-Squat: 3x3 (80% 1rm)
-Deadlift: 3x3 (80% 1rm)
-Overhead press: 3x3 (80% 1rm)
-Barbell row: 3x3 (80% 1rm)

Day 2- muscular endurance
-Squat: 1-2x20 (50% 1rm)
-Deadlift: 1-2x20 (50% 1rm)
-Overhead press: 1-2x20 (50% 1rm)
-Barbell row: 1-2x20 (50% 1rm)

Day 3- explosive strength
-Squat: 6x2 (30% 1rm), as fast and explosive as you can
-Deadlift: 6x2 (30% 1rm), as fast and explosive as you can
-Push press: 6x2 (30% 1rm), as fast and explosive as you can
-Barbell row: 6x2 (30% 1rm), as fast and explosive as you can
 
Stronger people are harder to kill. As a lightweight and training/fighting guys way bigger than me, I relayed on conditioning and pain tolerance to withstand the storm and when they got tired/gassed they were like babies
 
Judoka since '97, and Kali since '01. So we have the Judo and the comment on weapons covered ;)

Judo competition is weight categorised, so we've already accepted that when skill is equal the bigger/stronger Judoka has the advantage.

And: "I'm too Strong" said no Judoka ever.

The problem comes when strength is pursued at the expense of mat time (or recovery). For Judo, it's best to be a Judoka who trains strength/power. Not a powerlifter who trains Judo (though nothing wrong with that).

It's all about just being honest with yourself.

The real problem with S&C for Judo is that we don't have a 'season' like lots of other sports. Each athlete has to map out their own year, or if they are fortunate to be on the National Squad they have Coaches to do that for them.

Off the mat, we really should focus on power first, strength second. But cycle the priority of the two. Conditioning, we should ideally be getting most of that on the mat.

And... there's also the problem of moving up weight category. During the lockdown I've gotten stronger, but also I've notice my walking around weight is sneaking up (not that I actively compete anymore, but I like to know in the back of my head that three weeks of sensible eating and I can compete u81 easily).
 
The problem comes when strength is pursued at the expense of mat time (or recovery). For Judo, it's best to be a Judoka who trains strength/power. Not a powerlifter who trains Judo (though nothing wrong with that).
Yes!
 
Late response. Appreciate the comments, suggestions, advice, opinions and fact. Completely agree with strength should never be pursued in expense of mat time especially. Also a big fan of what I read about "anti stifness." I feel the warm up drills or tumbling really helps me with that and dynamic stretching, mindfulness meditation.
 
Hello,

I remember that a while ago, @Kozushi posted a super training of an Olympian coach of his. Infortunately i can not find it anymore but it was priceless

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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