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Bodyweight Increasing pull ups with harder progressions

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Would someone mind going over the form on the bodybuilder pull up form? I'm in the same boat as @Steve Freides. I can do hollow pull ups fairly easy, max of around 10, but I cannot get my chest to the bar with the other style. Anyone have a link to a good vid? I am interested in the statement that these pull ups can improve your horizontal press.
 
Wide grip, very wide, even. I've been told legs cross behind you works best. The idea is that you're pulling the back of you together, opening the front, and trying to touch your chest to the bar.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
Wide grip, very wide, even. I've been told legs cross behind you works best. The idea is that you're pulling the back of you together, opening the front, and trying to touch your chest to the bar.

-S-
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Thanks @Steve Freides! Does it matter which way the grip is facing? I tried both. I can get my chest closer with a chin up grip, but still can't quite touch the bar. I do like how these pull ups feel better on the elbows.
 
I've never seen wide grip done underhand - I'd stick with a pullup grip, palms facing away.

-S-
 
Wesker11 said:
Would someone mind going over the form on the bodybuilder pull up form? I'm in the same boat as @Steve Freides. I can do hollow pull ups fairly easy, max of around 10, but I cannot get my chest to the bar with the other style. Anyone have a link to a good vid? I am interested in the statement that these pull ups can improve your horizontal press.
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I'm not really sure what a "Bodybuilder Pull-up" is. Pretty sure that term was made up by non-BBers. All BBer advice I've heard on Pull-ups is to just do them, do them hard, and to not overthink it. Hooking the feet behind you, as far as I thought, was perfectly optional and simply used when the bar was too low. So I don't know what exactly you mean by it.

But I presume you're just interested in the "scapula retracted, body under the bar, slight lower body arch" form as opposed to the "Hollow body, bar and elbows always in front of you, scapula neutral". I've lately been doing a lot more of the former and got you a video for reference. NOTE that I'm using a wide grip only to make the exercise more challenging; a wide grip isn't required and you can do the same technique with a normal grip.



What you're doing is retracting the scapula strongly at the top to strengthen all those upper back muscles (rhomboids, traps, lats) that barely get trained. You're staying somewhat under the bar and keeping your chest up and the thoracic spine extended and in an active position instead of letting it collapse and hollow out. Your arms flare out somewhat instead of keeping your elbows in front of you (think adduction instead of extension). And keep a neutral pelvis so that your lower back sort of "hangs" down vertically. This will align you with the bar and allow you to stay under it.

You WILL feel a desire to bring your feet in front and protract a bit. These are compensation mechanisms to try to shift the focus to the biceps by allowing your body to get away from the bar. Don't fall for it.

Another subtle difference is that it's not about how high you can go and hence, you shouldn't measure success by how low you get the bar. Instead, focus on the correct pattern and the full scapula, shoulder and elbow ROM. You can see I achieve full elbow flexion, scapula retraction and shoulder extension (and hence, my throat goes well above the bar, albeit it's hard to see). However, that's not my goal; merely a result from following all of those points above.

Hopefully that helps.
 
@305pelusa, thanks for the post! I will try and incorporate these tips.

Edit: earlier today I was really leaning back trying to get my chest to the bar. I notice you aren't leaning back much
 
Yeah I wouldn't concern myself with "leaning back" or trying to arch or anything like that. All we're doing here is keeping an active chest. It's just like a Barbell Overhead Press.

It's possible to arch and lean back and sort of "Row" yourself to the bar and touch the bar to your chest. That usually gets called a "Sternum Chin-up". Google it. It's probably what you were attempting. It's a good movement too but definitely harder.

Here we're staying somewhat vertical, under the bar, and just let your legs sort of hang below you by keeping a neutral pelvis. We aren't arching it but we also aren't hollowing it. Just neutral (like in a Dip). You will find this movement really lights up the upper back and doesn't put as much focus on the biceps (which Hollow Pull-ups always did for me personally). It also takes your scapula through a very large ROM, and strengthens your adduction (both things we rarely, if ever, train at all).

Ultimately, my point was wether you do 20 of these, or Hollow, it's a good foundation for any other high level pulling work.
 
Sergej said:
to Mr. Freides and other certified SFBs:

in all due respect ... there are countless people ... who are more progressed, more advanced and more knowledgable in bodyweight movements ... than any SFB instructor.
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@Sergej, what you have written is derogatory, demeaning all of us who support the SFB without making any specific suggestion other than that people look elsewhere.

If you have a concrete idea in answer to someone's question, please state it. If you would like to say, e.g., that a certain aspect of a skill might better be taught in a different way and explain why, then say that. If, OTOH, you simply don't care for what we do in bodyweight exercise, my suggestion is that you be the person who looks elsewhere - find like-minded colleagues with whom you can confer on another forum and not this one.

We are clear on our principles and those don't change, but we stand ready, willing, and able to consider new ways of implementing those principles, and this is evidenced by the regular changes you will find in the curricula of all our course and certifications.

-S-
 
Harald Motz said:
@305pelusa sounds your on the breakthrough to invent the wheel and anounce your own certification, a pity that the wheel is re-invented already. But until then, countenance please. Just my opinion.
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Oh I guess I missed this comment.
I should be fairly clear this exchange is mostly just joking. I absolutely do not believe I have the knowledge to make a certification myself (I haven't even reached my main goals of a Planche and Front Lever... how could I teach what I can't even do or demo/show?). And even if I did, I would just release it in some form of free ebook. This is just a fun hobby for me and I'm certainly not in it for the money. I am in it for the general advancement and community.


I will just simply add that I actually, personally, don't think the wheel has been "invented" in Calisthenics. In the Barbell field, which is the fitness field with possibly the most amount of information, there still continues to be breakthroughs (like Reactive Training System's RPE method of this decade that has been well received). In fields with less research like Kettlebells, we see new methods come consistently. Every new Pavel book is consistently better and more effective than before. Pavel is effectively "re-inventing" the wheel with things like S&S and A&A. No doubt about that.

And now consider BW training which is an even newer and far less research-explored field. Even the KB Swing has been examined in labs, but has the Planche? The One-arm Chin-up? What Calisthenics program is as methodical as something like the Smolov? Or the soviet competitive KB routines given in the Russian KB Challenge?

It's very easy to just wave these questions off and say that those programs can be very numerical because specific weights are being used. But rough torque approximations and intensity levels can be obtained for many BW exercises with some simple physics. I've done a similar thing here when Steve was looking for how much weight he pushed in a OAPU:
Need A Pushup Math Maven

And that's just ONE untapped field. There's many other places where we can continue to come up with bigger and better things.

So I don't really agree that there's any pity. If anything, we live in a VERY exciting time for Calisthenics expontential growth of popularity and programming. Plenty of places where the wheel can be improved, given a tire, add friction to it, and prepare it for an F1 competition haha

Just my 2 cents.
 
Wow this is one interesting post. Here is my 2 cents (I'm not professional, nor as educated as any other poster here, working on it though) I divide exercises into 3 categories, works, doesn't work, can't do. For technique I follow the same thought. I generally feel stronger in the hollow position for pull ups it works for me. I'm incapable of doing any harder variation then wide grip so I can't speak how different positions work differently. do dead hang pull ups is the moral of this story. (And I while as soon as I find a branch/beam that I'm confident will support 180 pounds.)
Any who thanks for the discussion good people! I'm learning a lot.
 
The BodyBuilder pullup is taught at the SFL and used to strengthen the Bench Press. Feel free to email drmichael.hartle@strongfirst He is the Chief of the Barbell division and I am sure he would be happy to explain it so that you get the best answer as it relates to SF in case you decide at any point to attend the SFL certification.

I will also tag @Pavel Macek as Dr. Hartle is currently with him to teach the SFL in his country and he might see this prior to Doc seeing your email if he is teaching.

Thanks
Karen Smith
 
Augustus F-N said:
Hello,

I'm currently doing pull ups every other day. I do 5-8 hard sets and my current max is usually about 16. I've been stuck at this level for a very long time, perhaps even as long as a year. I would like to increase my max without going down the Grease the Groove method.
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If you want to increase your pull ups then try to do as many times as you can in a day this trick will really help you because as you said you been stuck at this level for a very long time. I am saying this because it is my personal experience.

Thanks.
 
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