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Bodyweight Increasing strength endurance and muscular endurance without constant smokers

Training for Life

Level 5 Valued Member
Greetings,

How could I increase my strength and muscular endurance without constantly going through smoker sessions? I train boxing and want to feel fresh when training it. However, besides bodyweight strength and power training, I’d like to work on my strength endurance and muscular endurance as well. What would you suggest?

I am currently training five days a week using a mixture of A+A and Easy Strength -style sessions with mainly bodyweight exercises.

Thanks in advance.
 
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pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Clint Emerson, which is a former military has another routine, which may be even more simple:
Push, pull, rotation, run / sprint. You can use plenty of versions, with weights / resistance bands or not.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Dayz

Level 6 Valued Member
@pet' With respect, I think the first recommendation is too complex and random. Where's the profession? One would be better served with having a base first. More strength, more power, less soreness.

And the second, seems like a smoker that will make you sore, but is also unbalanced and lacks any progression method. Like.... bench press to failure, then Snatch, then elbows, then sprint, repeat x 5? That's a smoker if I ever saw one!
 

Kev

Level 6 Valued Member
Greetings,

How could I increase my strength and muscular endurance without constantly going through smoker sessions? I train boxing and want to feel fresh when training it. However, besides bodyweight strength and power training, I’d like to work on my strength endurance and muscular endurance as well. What would you suggest?

I am currently training five days a week using a mixture of A+A and Easy Strength -style sessions with mainly bodyweight exercises.

Thanks in advance.
The Iron wolf. Check him out on YouTube
 

bluejeff

Level 6 Valued Member
Read the quick and the dead.

Try the program as written with a push and swings.

Adapt the principles to your needs.

Strength and endurance without smokers, to me, would mean high intensity repeat training.

This type of training is similar and when I used these kinds of methods I was hardly sore ever. You don’t need to use the hypertrophy method, but it’s the interval style training that allows for progress without getting wrecked. A smoker every once in a while (no more than once a week, imo) is good though. You don’t want to go all alactic as a fighter of any kind; you’re going to be lactic in matches most likely anyhow.



Edit: I am not familiar with the details of the SF Strength Endurance method, but from what I have seen people post here, it seems like it might fit your needs.
 

Pete L

Level 5 Valued Member
Greetings,

How could I increase my strength and muscular endurance without constantly going through smoker sessions? I train boxing and want to feel fresh when training it. However, besides bodyweight strength and power training, I’d like to work on my strength endurance and muscular endurance as well. What would you suggest?

I am currently training five days a week using a mixture of A+A and Easy Strength -style sessions with mainly bodyweight exercises.

Thanks in advance.
What are you doing for A+A? Why don't you feel this is not contributing to strength or muscular endurance? Where or in what situation do you feel you lack endurance?
 
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BillSteamshovel

Level 5 Valued Member
How could I increase my strength and muscular endurance without constantly going through smoker sessions?

Wouldn't you train "strength" in a different way to "muscular endurance" ? The way I see it you can be immensely strong and be able to lift a huge weight but unable to do 10k on a C2 rowing machine in less than 40min.

The way I think about endurance training is summarised in the link below and you would find lots of discussion about this on the cycling and rowing forums Large amounts of low-intensity training can develop base conditioning and aid recovery

Maybe some of the folk who do snatches for an hour straight in kettlebell competitions could discuss their training methods with you.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

@Dayz
I get what you mean and I partially agree. Let me explain:
First off, you are right as far as the base is concerned. Without even talking about fighting, having a baseline of strength, power, etc...is great for health and longevity. In that regard, I am with you.

However - if there is not a "but", that's not fun ;) - fighting is also technique base. Obviously, if you consider 2 people of the same weight and same technique, the "fitter" one may win. If you consider two people, one being slightly heavier / stronger but less technique, then the smaller one may win.

My boxing teacher was National Champion. He's always based his boxing game over the 3 topics hereafter, in this order: technique, speed, power. Indeed, a kick / blow does not have to be "hard" to be effective. Working on the "slap" with resistance band is one of the simplest way to gain speed without compromising form. It is always possible to say that strength comes first. I agree with that. However, it obliges to get a more complex programming or more complex exercises selection , with specific sets and reps.

Lee Morrison is a world respected guy in the self defense / combatives. He is, among other, famous for his "no non-sense" and brutal approach, tailored for the average person. I guess this is why he presents this kind of routine. He wants to keep things simple and effective.

I used it for a while to see how it would affect my boxing. I drastically gained speed.

Regarding the "smoker" aspect: nothing would prevent the person willing to do it to focus on max speed for each reps. This is very auto-regulated. Plus, in a fight, usually, you do not rest when you want. As long as you have to keep kicking, in a fatigue state or not, you have to keep going. There's a mental part here.

For the second post I did, Clint Emerson is former SF. you can "cycle" the exercises: day 1: you go harder on the pull. Day 2, you keep a few reps in the tank for the pull, but go harder on the push. Etc... That way you get something fairly sustainable.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

ChrisD

Level 5 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
I would also recommend to read Pavel's Q&D book. Follow the principles for at least 3 months and see how/if it suits your needs. It definitely incorporates elements of muscular & strength endurance + power.
 

Training for Life

Level 5 Valued Member
Thank you for the valuable information and replies to everyone. Some very good stuff here.

What are you doing for A+A? Why don't you feel this is not contributing to strength or muscular endurance? Where or in what situation do you feel you lack endurance?
On a typical week I am now doing either a single 60-ish minute session or two 30-45-ish minute sessions with power push-ups, sprints, jump squats and various other hops and jumps. I am quite eclectic about it as I am worthless at following a strict program. Generally I pick an exercise and keep doing that every Nth minute during the shorter sessions, or pick two exercises that I keep alternating during the longer sessions. I feel that it has a positive effect on my power generation and what I'd call "bounce", but not so much on the endurance side of things.

Lee Morrison is a world respected guy in the self defense / combatives. He is, among other, famous for his "no non-sense" and brutal approach, tailored for the average person. I guess this is why he presents this kind of routine. He wants to keep things simple and effective.

I used it for a while to see how it would affect my boxing. I drastically gained speed.
How often would you recommend doing the drills presented by Lee Morrison? These look and sound very interesting. Also, do you have experience is it better to do them before / after boxing training or during off-days?

Wouldn't you train "strength" in a different way to "muscular endurance" ?
That was a bit of a grammar mistake. I meant to say strength endurance and muscular endurance.

Read the quick and the dead.
I would also recommend to read Pavel's Q&D book.
Thanks for the recommendation. I've got the book and have read it, but haven't gotten around to testing out the principles laid out in the book.
 

Pete L

Level 5 Valued Member
Thank you for the valuable information and replies to everyone. Some very good stuff here.


On a typical week I am now doing either a single 60-ish minute session or two 30-45-ish minute sessions with power push-ups, sprints, jump squats and various other hops and jumps. I am quite eclectic about it as I am worthless at following a strict program. Generally I pick an exercise and keep doing that every Nth minute during the shorter sessions, or pick two exercises that I keep alternating during the longer sessions. I feel that it has a positive effect on my power generation and what I'd call "bounce", but not so much on the endurance side of things.


How often would you recommend doing the drills presented by Lee Morrison? These look and sound very interesting. Also, do you have experience is it better to do them before / after boxing training or during off-days?


That was a bit of a grammar mistake. I meant to say strength endurance and muscular endurance.



Thanks for the recommendation. I've got the book and have read it, but haven't gotten around to testing out the principles laid out in the book.
My recommendation would be the KB-SF BJJ programmes. I have run these various A+A protocols alone and also in conjunction with Victorious MP programme, plus a short S&S progression, for the last 15 months and they have really helped with my kickboxing.
I am worthless at following a strict program
I'd consider this point. If what your doing is not working look at what you already know you're not doing or avoiding (this point of enlightenment is from a Dan John book I'm currently reading "Never Let Go").
Try sticking to a programme. All the comments above are about programmes. If you don't address that one point, you may just end up concluding they all don't work.

The BJJ package has principally six protocols. If you mix in S&S and Q&D you can alternate between a multitude (10+) of similar (/ same but different) protocols and avoid long term boredom.
 

Walker

First Post
hello,
for benefits in work capacity, muscular strength endurance and faster recovery, joint health, injury prevention and stretching I actually use additional loaded stretching again (started with deep PU position 5x40sec and deep lunge position 5x1 min). You could do them every day or every other day. Some do them twice a day. (There had been a topic here „ extreme isometrics“).
For additional information:

I actually switched again to Tim Andersons approach mentioned in his blog article „super simple strength“ : pick two (in my case deep lunge and deep PU), then carry and/or crawl and dropped my regular strength routine.

Personal note: reduced max strength, but gain in functional everyday conditioning, lower resting heart rate, some weight loss, can train almost daily. Even if I exhaust during the sessions, recovery is very fast and I dont feel smoked after training. My body feels kind of always ready.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

How often would you recommend doing the drills presented by Lee Morrison? These look and sound very interesting. Also, do you have experience is it better to do them before / after boxing training or during off-days?
For frequency, I am a big believer in the fact that physical preparation should not be longer than the actual thing. Then, 2x a week is fine, especially if you plan to do some SF style A+A.

Regarding programming, if possible, that's better to do it the day before boxing days. Indeed, these exercises do not drain you. So you'll be fresh for your boxing sessions. However, depending on the intensity you put during the boxing session, you may be tired on the day after, so the Morrison's training would not be optimal (it would drain you even more and you would not get a lot out of it).

Hope that helps,

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Training for Life

Level 5 Valued Member
Try sticking to a programme. All the comments above are about programmes. If you don't address that one point, you may just end up concluding they all don't work.
Maybe a slight clarification is in order. While I am not a big follower of strict programmes, I am consistent with my practice and do follow a set of principles, such as ones that programs and protocols of Easy Strength or A+A lay out. For example, I did run S&S as written for several months in two occasions, but eventually drifted off to just sticking to the principle of ”practicing swings and get-ups nearly daily, while staying fresh and managing recovery”. I know that it might not always be the most optimal route, but it’s more sustainable for me personally.
 

Pete L

Level 5 Valued Member
Maybe a slight clarification is in order. While I am not a big follower of strict programmes, I am consistent with my practice and do follow a set of principles, such as ones that programs and protocols of Easy Strength or A+A lay out. For example, I did run S&S as written for several months in two occasions, but eventually drifted off to just sticking to the principle of ”practicing swings and get-ups nearly daily, while staying fresh and managing recovery”. I know that it might not always be the most optimal route, but it’s more sustainable for me personally.
OK, my misinterpretation then, apologies.

Then I'd stick with what you're doing as I don't consider any of them as "smokers".

Good luck
 

Dayz

Level 6 Valued Member
Joel Jamieson has a great book (Ultinate MMA Conditioning) with dozens of protocols for endurance and strength endurance depending on what you test worse at, designed specifically for combat athletes but can of course be adjusted to anyone.
I would second this as well. I trained and completed in Muay Thai and boxing for 16 years. I followed "traditional" training methods for almost all of that, and discovered Joel's work only in ie last 2-3, but it made a HUGE difference and totally changed my understanding of energy systems / training, etc.

That said, the programming in there is quite complex (it's for professionals). And I also wish I knew about S&S, AA and Q&D back then. Q&D in particular would have been amazing
 
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