Brett Jones
StrongFirst Director of Education
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Beast Tamer
Strongo - go back and read my posts - lots of info in there
Sean posted about his "working" with people and experience so I simply posted mine- call it whatever you want
Sean - responses in bold
Re: my material, I still have no clue what’s going on anatomy wise with the reverse pigeon stretch that you saw. It fixed pain below my knee and I showed it to an MS in sports science and it saved her from having knee surgery. I showed it to Mike hoping it would help him (did it?). I’m not at all sorry for that and you can bash me all you want I promise I’m not affected by it in the least. Just like I told you privately, I’m not going around saying I’m an expert on knees.
First with Mike - you tried to "assess" and recommend him exercises off of picture that ended up not even being him
Blind advice is blind - just because someone has a "pain" does not mean what worked for you will work for them
With his structure and individual situation the exercise you recommended would hurt him and me for that matter
your willingness to hop in on injury posts and make recommendations is just part of what proved to be irritating to me - you say you don't claim to be an expert but that doesn't stop you from chiming in and it should
It is irresponsible - as is most of the responses on injury threads all over the internet.
As to what was wrong with the video - it has been a while since I watched it and can't remember all of it - if you send it to me again I will send you a breakdown but it left an impression shall we say...
Now let’s get back to the original question and try it again hopefully this time without you getting emotional (no offense).
Guilty as charged and making no promises
You are saying the L-sit is not an inner unit core exercise but a core exercise. Can you please explain how this is different. Would we then say that an L-sit is an “outer core” exercise to distinguish it from an “inner core” exercise such as gentle rolling that you suggested above? And when we say inner unit here, are we talking about the spine stabilizer transverse abdominus, or something else? I think of “inner unit” as hitting spine stabilizers to distinguish it from “outer unit” which is the RA that flexes the spine (mover). Is that wrong? If you are going to get upset because I’m pushing you on this, I’m sorry but what you are saying does not make any sense to me so I am questioning you about it since you seem to be open to discussing it.
I am getting upset by this because I have already explained this only to have you come back telling me that you disagree and see it "this way" - I've already explained it.
this goes a few different directions - From a very broad perspective the inner unit is considered to be the pelvic floor, diaphragm, multifidus, and TrA and as discussed needs to reflexively active - it is about timing and sequencing beyond just naming the muscles.
So yes "inner unit" is about the "stabilizers" and Outer is about the prime movers - I stated this earlier in a different way and you disagreed with me.
Let’s ASSUME the person knows how to breathe properly.
Again an area you disagreed with until I provided some info
I see what you’re saying about not wanting to equate stability and strength and that it is a big problem in the industry and I know you work hard to fix that (thankfully), I was merely pointing out that the two are in fact related. Things can be closely related without being the same thing….sorry if that didn’t come out clearly before.
The two are only related in so much as one has to come before the other. Again stabilizers only need 20-30% of their MVC to stabilize a joint
An example - the Rotator cuff muscles that should fire first and stabilize the shoulder are up against the pec, lat, delt etc... and can never be as strong as those muscles and it doesn't have to be - it only has to fire first.
So yes when you started trying to correct me and inform me on a subject that I know far better than you do I got upset.
I have NO issues with questions and being questioned. I take issue with being "corrected" by someone that doesn't have the information, background and knowledge to do so.
Sean posted about his "working" with people and experience so I simply posted mine- call it whatever you want
Sean - responses in bold
Re: my material, I still have no clue what’s going on anatomy wise with the reverse pigeon stretch that you saw. It fixed pain below my knee and I showed it to an MS in sports science and it saved her from having knee surgery. I showed it to Mike hoping it would help him (did it?). I’m not at all sorry for that and you can bash me all you want I promise I’m not affected by it in the least. Just like I told you privately, I’m not going around saying I’m an expert on knees.
First with Mike - you tried to "assess" and recommend him exercises off of picture that ended up not even being him
Blind advice is blind - just because someone has a "pain" does not mean what worked for you will work for them
With his structure and individual situation the exercise you recommended would hurt him and me for that matter
your willingness to hop in on injury posts and make recommendations is just part of what proved to be irritating to me - you say you don't claim to be an expert but that doesn't stop you from chiming in and it should
It is irresponsible - as is most of the responses on injury threads all over the internet.
As to what was wrong with the video - it has been a while since I watched it and can't remember all of it - if you send it to me again I will send you a breakdown but it left an impression shall we say...
Now let’s get back to the original question and try it again hopefully this time without you getting emotional (no offense).
Guilty as charged and making no promises
You are saying the L-sit is not an inner unit core exercise but a core exercise. Can you please explain how this is different. Would we then say that an L-sit is an “outer core” exercise to distinguish it from an “inner core” exercise such as gentle rolling that you suggested above? And when we say inner unit here, are we talking about the spine stabilizer transverse abdominus, or something else? I think of “inner unit” as hitting spine stabilizers to distinguish it from “outer unit” which is the RA that flexes the spine (mover). Is that wrong? If you are going to get upset because I’m pushing you on this, I’m sorry but what you are saying does not make any sense to me so I am questioning you about it since you seem to be open to discussing it.
I am getting upset by this because I have already explained this only to have you come back telling me that you disagree and see it "this way" - I've already explained it.
this goes a few different directions - From a very broad perspective the inner unit is considered to be the pelvic floor, diaphragm, multifidus, and TrA and as discussed needs to reflexively active - it is about timing and sequencing beyond just naming the muscles.
So yes "inner unit" is about the "stabilizers" and Outer is about the prime movers - I stated this earlier in a different way and you disagreed with me.
Let’s ASSUME the person knows how to breathe properly.
Again an area you disagreed with until I provided some info
I see what you’re saying about not wanting to equate stability and strength and that it is a big problem in the industry and I know you work hard to fix that (thankfully), I was merely pointing out that the two are in fact related. Things can be closely related without being the same thing….sorry if that didn’t come out clearly before.
The two are only related in so much as one has to come before the other. Again stabilizers only need 20-30% of their MVC to stabilize a joint
An example - the Rotator cuff muscles that should fire first and stabilize the shoulder are up against the pec, lat, delt etc... and can never be as strong as those muscles and it doesn't have to be - it only has to fire first.
So yes when you started trying to correct me and inform me on a subject that I know far better than you do I got upset.
I have NO issues with questions and being questioned. I take issue with being "corrected" by someone that doesn't have the information, background and knowledge to do so.