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Kettlebell Interesting "Total Package" article by Pavel

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Kozushi

Kozushi

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I actually didn't realize Pavel had a blog, so I've spent a few hours reading all the entries for the past 5 years. This article in particular stands out to me as interesting, as it seems to be his "ultimate" programme. I just wonder if anyone is following it or has any thoughts on it:

Total Package Weekly Kettlebell Training Template
 
You seem to be asking an awful lot about "programs" lately with your posts.. Why don't you stick with one and see how it works for you?

Try S.S until you really nail down the technique and get some weight on the bell. This program will do wonders for you, trust me.

After you complete Simple, maybe give ROP or Total Tension Complex a try.
The above, including S.S, should take the better part of a year to complete; however, you'll comeback a stronger person for it..
 
It's great. I'll run it again in 2017 sometime. Not to be blended with anything else, it is total and it's tense.
 
@Kozushi I think that @GDove hits the nail on the head here. You may want to also check out this article by Dan John http://www.strongfirst.com/things-are-going-so-well-help-me-screw-it-up-part-2

In the blog post you share from Pavel, just look at some of the exercises included....double snatches, presses, etc, and look at that in light of Dan's article, especially when he speaks of the concept of "performance standards dictate complexity in training"....in other words, master certain basics as a stepping stone/rung to the next exercise. Also note his recommended order of programs at the end of the article....again, stepping stones.

I know S&S seems "boring" to some people, believe me and I know what it is to have "exercise ADHD". Been there....tried to do the S&S program back when the book first came out. I lasted maybe 6 weeks before I got caught by the next shiny thing, and I regret that. I first came across kettlebells in 2007-2008-ish, and the Enter the Kettlebell book had just recently come out within the previous year or two, and at the time on the DD forum it was the latest "thing", much like S&S has been. No S&S program existed, just a resemblance of it in the Program Minimum. I did attempt the Rite of Passage, and managed to work my way to a 1/4 way bodyweight press (as a female with my bodyweight that was 16kg, and lets just say the bell got up there but it wasn't the most efficient or prettiest). I didn't reach the snatch goal, because yes I got....distracted by the next program! I also got hurt even before I started ETK, by doing snatches when I really had no buisiness to...that basis of strength from things like getups and a powerful hip snap from swings was not there. And that comes from things like what we do in S&S.

I am doing the S&S program now, and started June 1. It's been a bit of a glacial slow process....at least conditioning wise....I only managed my second test for time in my swings just last nite and got under 5 min, and that is with the starting weight for women of 16kg. (My getups reached the time goal long before that, and I have always found improving strength way easier than conditioning anyway). Only after sticking with it this long have I begun to see what others like Dan John speak of.

I am a long way from reaching Simple I think, BUT I do know just from experience that had a concrete laid out program like S&S existed back then, I would have found anything I attempted to do in the ETK program a hell of a lot easier!!

Trust the process, Kozushi ;) I think it is there for a reason!

.
 
GDove said:
You seem to be asking an awful lot about "programs" lately with your posts.. Why don't you stick with one and see how it works for you?

Try S.S until you really nail down the technique and get some weight on the bell. This program will do wonders for you, trust me.

After you complete Simple, maybe give ROP or Total Tension Complex a try.
The above, including S.S, should take the better part of a year to complete; however, you'll comeback a stronger person for it..
Click to expand...
Thank you. My personality is one that likes to plan FAR ahead. For instance, while learning Korean, I bought books I knew I could only read 15 years later... I did read them then. I'm weird, I know, but my methods work for myself. If I know the end goal, I can tweak my early stages of progress towards it. I also want to know if something is a worthy goal or not. I bought the 40kg bell months ago while I was still on the 24, and now it's actually seeming a bit easy for me for S&S, so I've ordered the 48. I'll be content to stick with maintaining S&S at the 48, but I want to be sure I'm doing the "best" thing given all the variables in my life. For instance, I don't lift a barbell because it simply takes up too much space - that's a personal variable. I figure if I ask these questions people who don't want to read them don't have to, but others who find they pique their interest may have things to say that will stimulate further though and research on my part and lead to some great results. Frankly, getting to the 40 for S&S, to me at least, is a big surprise! Thank you for your advice, and I am following it. :)
 
Kozushi said:
I actually didn't realize Pavel had a blog, so I've spent a few hours reading all the entries for the past 5 years. This article in particular stands out to me as interesting, as it seems to be his "ultimate" programme. I just wonder if anyone is following it or has any thoughts on it:

Total Package Weekly Kettlebell Training Template
Click to expand...

I don't think there is an ultimate program, as it depends on the goals and where you are in relation to them.

If you are looking 15 years down the road I would suggest forgetting a program goal and setting a audacious performance goal. E.g competing in ninja warrior, or a worlds strongest man competition. That would be a closet analogy to the Korean book you bought for 15 years later.

As to this program, so long as the following g is true for you and you are competent in all its movements it should be fine.

"If strength and conditioning are equally important to you"

If you are trying to learn movements during the program you won't get the most out of it.
 
crazycanuck said:
@Kozushi I think that @GDove hits the nail on the head here. You may want to also check out this article by Dan John http://www.strongfirst.com/things-are-going-so-well-help-me-screw-it-up-part-2

In the blog post you share from Pavel, just look at some of the exercises included....double snatches, presses, etc, and look at that in light of Dan's article, especially when he speaks of the concept of "performance standards dictate complexity in training"....in other words, master certain basics as a stepping stone/rung to the next exercise. Also note his recommended order of programs at the end of the article....again, stepping stones.

I know S&S seems "boring" to some people, believe me and I know what it is to have "exercise ADHD". Been there....tried to do the S&S program back when the book first came out. I lasted maybe 6 weeks before I got caught by the next shiny thing, and I regret that. I first came across kettlebells in 2007-2008-ish, and the Enter the Kettlebell book had just recently come out within the previous year or two, and at the time on the DD forum it was the latest "thing", much like S&S has been. No S&S program existed, just a resemblance of it in the Program Minimum. I did attempt the Rite of Passage, and managed to work my way to a 1/4 way bodyweight press (as a female with my bodyweight that was 16kg, and lets just say the bell got up there but it wasn't the most efficient or prettiest). I didn't reach the snatch goal, because yes I got....distracted by the next program! I also got hurt even before I started ETK, by doing snatches when I really had no buisiness to...that basis of strength from things like getups and a powerful hip snap from swings was not there. And that comes from things like what we do in S&S.

I am doing the S&S program now, and started June 1. It's been a bit of a glacial slow process....at least conditioning wise....I only managed my second test for time in my swings just last nite and got under 5 min, and that is with the starting weight for women of 16kg. (My getups reached the time goal long before that, and I have always found improving strength way easier than conditioning anyway). Only after sticking with it this long have I begun to see what others like Dan John speak of.

I am a long way from reaching Simple I think, BUT I do know just from experience that had a concrete laid out program like S&S existed back then, I would have found anything I attempted to do in the ETK program a hell of a lot easier!!

Trust the process, Kozushi ;) I think it is there for a reason!

.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the kind and thoughtful reply, fellow Canuck! We canucks are naturally bubbly and talkative - a way to keep warm in the winter, which is most of the year...

Thank you for explaining the concept of stepping stone programmes. I didn't quite think of that yet in quite that way.

Regarding "the next best thing" - that's what is perplexing me. Strongfirst has several "next best things"! :)
Let's list them:
1. Power To The People - for barbells
2. Naked Warrior - for no equipment or for trips
3. Bodyweight Exercises - the stuff in their bodyweight seminars including things beyond Naked Warrior
4. Rite of Passage - one "best" kettlebell programme
5. Simple and Sinister - another "best" kettlebell programme
6. This "Total Package" thing from the blog
7. Also, "god/goddess workouts", some kind of "cycle" stuff with double kettelbells, and all kinds of other things.

So, what are my goals - to get strong, healthy, live long and prosper, look attractive (i.e. low fat to muscle ratio.)

What programme satisfies these - ALL OF THEM!

Can I excel at this stuff - YES. I'm 185cm tall and a little under 100kg. Yes, I'm big enough to excel.

Can I see achieving Sinister soon - yes! If I'm doing the stuff with the 40 now, I'll be done with Sinister in 6 months or less.

Strongfirst has some kind of challenges I noticed - maybe those are what I should aim for, perhaps using my own intuition to develop programming towards them...

I think I'll have to try for the SFG certifications and the other challenges. I'll start with seminars - drive down to the States for a seminar and some touring about in the area...
 
I'm so DUMB! I should have figured out that this was the goal of Strongfirst students all along! I don't know how I missed it! Evidently S&S and ROP are foundational "bread and butter" programmes for all, but if you're really into it, the total package is the SFG certification! Okay, very cool! I'll have to get a 24kg bell that matches the one I got long ago - hopefully that won't be a problem.

I also want to do the bodyweight certification. That stuff fascinates me just as much.

Just a note to the web designers - it appears to me that the SFG II information is a little bit incorrect - it appears as if someone copied and pasted the SFG I information by accident onto the SFG II "Requirements" page leaving it unclear as to what the SFG II requirements are.
 
Kozushi said:
Just a note to the web designers - it appears to me that the SFG II information is a little bit incorrect - it appears as if someone copied and pasted the SFG I information by accident onto the SFG II "Requirements" page leaving it unclear as to what the SFG II requirements are.
Click to expand...

The SFG 1 requirements are retested at the SFG 2. All of the level 2 skills that are tested, as well as the press requirements, are at the top.
 
Does anyone run those tests with two 32s? The exercises are a bit easy for me (except the snatch) with 24s.
 
Kozushi said:
Does anyone run those tests with two 32s? The exercises are a bit easy for me (except the snatch) with 24s.
Click to expand...

@Kozushi, you can do whatever you like in training, but at the SFG cert you use the prescribed test weight and no one cares if you can do heavier. It is about technique, not weight (although those who have to work up to the weight - which is almost everyone, actually, if they're starting from scratch - may feel differently). If you look at my training log, I just posted a video of SFG I and II skills - my test weight is 16kg which is pretty light for me in some movements. This actually makes it harder to do them right sometimes, but it's important to be able to dial back the weight and master the skills at a standard weight.
 
Anna C said:
but it's important to be able to dial back the weight
Click to expand...

I hear this a lot, but I've never understood why. Why is this important? If my dail goes from 1 to 11, and I practice between 6 and 9, why is it important to learn to operate at say a 2 or 3?

Are we worried about people accidentally applying way too much force in real life situations? Or is it calibration? perhaps if you think you live between 6-9 but you never visit 3 you might really be living 8-10?
 
TravisDirks said:
I hear this a lot, but I've never understood why. Why is this important?
Click to expand...

I can only give you my opinion on this. Perhaps Brett Jones, Steve Freides, Pavel Macek, or others could give the actual StrongFirst answer.

From my perspective, three things come to mind:

1) Standardization for the certification. Weight and age classes are set to a manageable number. Every person has an applicable weight for testing - end of story. (Those of us who have been in the military probably have little trouble with this concept...) I can only imagine how complicated things would get if you would test with any weight you wanted to.

2) Focus on technique and movement patterns, rather than focus on moving as much weight as possible.

3) The skill of dialing the power to any given weight; i.e. to make a swing look virtually the same at 16kg, 24kg, 32kg, teaches the skill of regulating the application of power. THIS is a key to efficiency, which is a key concept of hardstyle.
 
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Anna C said:
@Kozushi, you can do whatever you like in training, but at the SFG cert you use the prescribed test weight and no one cares if you can do heavier. It is about technique, not weight (although those who have to work up to the weight - which is almost everyone, actually, if they're starting from scratch - may feel differently). If you look at my training log, I just posted a video of SFG I and II skills - my test weight is 16kg which is pretty light for me in some movements. This actually makes it harder to do them right sometimes, but it's important to be able to dial back the weight and master the skills at a standard weight.
Click to expand...
Thank you for explaining this to me. Of course I am not interested in impressing people by lifting heavier, I'm just actually trying to save however many $ it costs to buy the 24 - not that it's a big deal, hahaha. I think I'll train mostly with the double 32s and when it gets closer to testing time, I'll be sure to spend a few months using them also. I will be using your training log to train - thank you for letting me know about the video!!! :)
 
Kozushi said:
That fellow definitely knows what he's doing!
Click to expand...

Yes he does... That is Master SFG Zar Horton. I am looking forward to meeting him at my SFG II in Portland in Feb 2017 as he will be the Master SFG in charge of the Cert event.
 
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