Intermittent Fasting & Training

EricFrohardt

Double-Digit Post Count
I've been incorporating some Intermittent Fasting into my life for awhile now. On some days, I go a full 24hrs w/out eating. Then eat a big meal at night. On other days, I will have a small snack at / around 2pm and then eat again at dinner.

Have really enjoyed the results, mostly from a productivity standpoint. Seem to no longer have mid-day crashes I used to when eating a big lunch.

Typically, I'm able to do KB and BW strength 'practices' fasted / partially fasted at the end of the day. Specifically, I've noticed I can do S&S fasted w/out much trouble. But there are days where I wonder if my 'practice' would be more productive if I had fueled prior.

What are your experiences w/ fasting and training? What kinds of training does it work best with? Do you think I'm going to slow my progress towards the 'Sinister' goal by not fueling prior to training?

Would love to hear everyone's comments here....
 

Pavel Macek

More than 2500 posts
Master Certified Instructor
@EricFrohardt ,

I am on Intermittent Fasting most of the time - it suits me very well. I am much more productive and energized (teaching, practicing, writing, translating), and I enjoy a big dinner and calm of the evening much more.

I usually skip breakfast and drink hot water with lemon, and Chinese Pu-Erh tea. If I am really hungry, I have the breakfast (i.e. "break the fast") in the early afternoon. Evening - big dinner. And I mean big. No troubles with sleeping at all, not hungry in the morning.

IF is KB/BW compatible (S&S, GTG), barbell to certain extent (PTTP!). When I was doing 5x5 with barbell, not compatible at all, I was hungry all the time.

Good to see you on the forum!
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
I have been a Warrior Dieter for at least a decade; it works great for me.

I usually lift in the middle of the day, so I have coffee, vitamins, and a bit of homemade nut butter (with a spoon from the jar) in the mornings, then coffee, water, and a Dale's bar just a few minutes before I lift. The snack before lifting seems to make the lifting go better for me.

I think everyone has to find their own rhythm. I've been known to eat a big breakfast, a big lunch, a big snack, and a big dinner all in the same day because I can tell when I need it, and that's maybe a few times a year when, for whatever reason, I'm just plain behind in taking in calories.

The other thought I'll throw out is that I don't think of what I do as intermittent fasting; I call it "cyclic eating." My eating cycles exist on many levels, e.g., I eat more on the weekends and less during the week, and usually more in the summer when I'm more active than in the winter. The cycle is also about quality for me - if I'm going to have a "poor" food choice, I'll save it for the weekend.

The daily food cycle for me is much the same, e.g., my day starts with a vegan choice of nut butter and coffee; by midafternoon, I may start putting milk in my coffee, and by dinner time, it's all manner of whatever is here, whatever I can find in the 'frig, and whatever I'm in the mood for - meat, cheese, vegetables, and sometimes a sweet afterwards.

-S-
 

EricFrohardt

Double-Digit Post Count
Thanks @Steve Freides. I'm still not all that familiar w/ the Warrior Diet. Got the book on the wish list, but could use a summary. I also splurge on weekends, typically on Sundays. (and definitely this coming Thursday!!!)
 

ali

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
My 12 year old daughter said to me the other day: 'you've got a really weird way of eating, how can you hardly eat anything in the daytime but eat massive amounts for tea'? Pretty much it.....
Just moved from S&S to ETK ladders recently and noticed my intake drop significantly. Only my second week mind, prepared for it to change as and when....I could really down an eye boggling amount of grub post S&S with the 32 get ups on board. Judging from what others have said with the ladders, I may need to increase my shopping budget as the ladders increase. Yum! Yes, agree with Pavel, big means B-I-G.
 

MikeMoran

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Yes I switched to an IF based lifestyle and it works great for me. I do my training sessions in the AM and have no issues.
 

Pavel Macek

More than 2500 posts
Master Certified Instructor
Although I like the original Warrior's Diet, I don't agree with the food choices in some occasions. I personally recommend the books on IF by Nate Miyaki. Disclaimer: I am not a dietitian.
 

Statia

Double-Digit Post Count
I've been known to eat a big breakfast, a big lunch, a big snack, and a big dinner all in the same day because I can tell when I need it
@Steve Freides , other than the obvious hunger pangs, are there other symptoms you find when you can "tell when I need it"? Do you feel fatigued, loss of strength, headaches ? ....
 

ali

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Never really got the juicing thing either. I get it from the perspective of a refreshing, tasty drink but remain very doubtful that it is any better than each individual item of fruit chewed with your own teeth. If you still have them, that is! My thinking is that blitzing the bejeesus out of some fruit rips apart the fibre and all you are doing is overdosing on fructose that your liver can't handle. Fair enough, post workout recovery if needs must, restocking liver glycogen if you've just run a marathon and all that lad-de-dah recovery window stuff but I'm stuck in the 70s, oranges at half time or a banana and a glass of milk will suffice surely? Or a glass of water. Then stuff yer face after a shower.
@Pavel Macek, Nate's Intermittent Feast is a great template that I roughly adopt and adapt to suit me without giving too much thought to the whole diet thing. That is in the spirit of the non dogmatic, unstructured approach to food that Nate advocates. I eat pretty much as I did when I was a kid, pre the explosion of fast food and all the nonsense. As a kid, in the UK, it was very much meat and 2 veg. Now it is meat and 4 veg.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
@Steve Freides , other than the obvious hunger pangs, are there other symptoms you find when you can "tell when I need it"? Do you feel fatigued, loss of strength, headaches ? ....
@Statia, we're all different, but I almost never feel hungry. Sometimes I start to feel a little slow, both physically and mentally, when I need to eat. At other times, I find I become a little too "mean and lean" and am actually a bit aggressive, short of temper, and the like, when I need to eat.

The idea of a controlled stress to your body - insert all those terms like blood sugar, insulin, etc. - means you can adapt, so I don't feel hungry because I've adapted to not eating often. One thing I'd like to see explored more is "fasting" blood sugar level in people who practice IF. My fasting blood sugar levels are relatively high, according to my doctor, but my theory is that I've adapted - a fasting blood sugar has a particular meaning for someone who never fasts except to take a fasting blood sugar test, and a different meaning, IMHO, for someone who frequently practices fasting in some form.

JMO, no science claimed, only theorized according to my experiment of one.

-S-
 

TravisS

More than 300 posts
@Statia My fasting blood sugar levels are relatively high, according to my doctor, but my theory is that I've adapted - a fasting blood sugar has a particular meaning for someone who never fasts except to take a fasting blood sugar test, and a different meaning, IMHO, for someone who frequently practices fasting in some form.
Curious to what your doctor says is "high"? You don't have to share your numbers but a general range would be interesting... above 100? I've had my fasting glucose measured every November for the past 3 years and it has always been the same(93). 3 years ago I was horribly out of shape and yet it still remained the same even after I shed 35lb and gain a bit of muscle. Started eating slightly better also. I fully haven't adopted the IF style of eating yet but would like to.
 

Fred64

Double-Digit Post Count
For what it’s worth. I have read a lot about intermittent fasting over the years. And I have tried a few different approaches. I have come to the conclusion that maybe intermittent fasting (one big meal a day) is a little bit like glycolytic training; it can give you short term benefits but may cause you long term harm. And that I think that you are more ”tolerant” to eating larger meals when you are young and more insulin sensitive. I would like to argue that life is a long road to insulin (and other hormones) resistance. Like all other senses get ”dulled” over the years kind of. And if you want to keep your insulin sensitivity high as long as possible in life it’s better to try to keep it from ”shouting” to the cells once a day instead of ”whispering” many times. A little bit like your hearing i guess. So, large insulin spikes once a day are probably anabolic (that’s why bodybuilders inject it) but it’s a bad idea for long term health.

My guess is that it’s best to eat like Pavel thinks you should exercise; ”a little a day goes a long way”. One simple & sinister session a day. Good whole food every day. All day. In reasonable sized portions. Alactic and aerobic. Then, sometimes you ”die but do”. Non stop swings is the exercise way. Glycolytic. A day of fasting with a big meal to break the fast is the diet way. I think Brad Pilons Eat stop Eat probably comes closest to this.

If I were to suggest another way it would be a "soft" version of the warrior diet with unrestricted fruit during the day and protein and starch at night. Alkalizing and detoxifying fruit (not to many, maybe one every 1,5 hour) would supply you with the perfect level of blood glucose to supply the brain and some slow activity. Half of the sugar in fruit (approximately) goes to the blood and the rest to the liver to be released on the glucagon signal. This would give you a steady flow of glucose with a minimum of insulin spiking. Fruit also contain very little methionine (google methionine restriction and cancer). Then, in the afternoon, you do your simple and sinister. After that your muscles are prepared for a protein rich dinner and some starch to replenish muscle glycogen used during the day and the simple and sinister session. And because of the low protein during the day you have sensitized your muscles for the anabolic signals of the amino acids (mainly leucine) (google protein pulsing) in the evening meal.
Oh, and fat comes with the natural protein sources...

What do you think? Am I wrong or am I wrong?
 

Snowman

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
My fasting blood sugar levels are relatively high, according to my doctor
For what it's worth, it may be a good idea to get your fasting insulin checked next time you get some blood work done. Insulin is primarily released to store excess nutrients in the cells. In a fasting state, you're pulling the stored nutrients from the cells, so you should have little to no insulin in circulation. If there is still a significant amount of insulin in circulation, that means that your body is still having trouble regulating your blood sugar, even at a time when your blood sugar should be most stable. Upwards of 80 uiu/ml insulin while fasted indicates insulin resistance, even if blood sugar is in the healthy 70-110 range, whereas a healthy young person will be very near 0. As we age, we naturally become less sensitive to insulin, but most healthy people should, ideally, still be in the single digits or teens. Disclaimer: not a doctor.
 

Stuart Elliott

More than 500 posts
I did a 24 hour fast for few years and did ok. But I found I need to do heavy weights (I'm Including S&S) with some food inside me. So now eat 3 x daily, no snacking and a coffee/banana before my early morning S&S session.
 

mvorchard

Double-Digit Post Count
Hi there,

Would there be any actual cost or problem if exercising in the morning - a good S&S complete session, for instance - and not eating around the session, at all??

With about 22% b.f., and with the only target of losing fat in mind, is there any need of fueling when exercise, for this matter?

I mostly ride my bike, and try to have more than four sessions a week of S&S. But I do love to eat and drink (exclusively wine), so I struggle with weight a lot.

If riding for less than 2-2:30 hrs, I'm able to do it on an empty stomach - maybe taking something with me for the ride. But I still follow the rule (mith?) of feeding myself as soon as I'm back. A good protein shake or something like it. Do I really need this??

Same thing when doing my S&S sessions: no need of fueling before starting, and I'm perfectly ok (from a hunger perspective) with a ketogenic coffee after it. Am I causing the trained muscles any trouble doing this?? Do I need to drink a protein shake, as I *strongly feel* I should??

I believe you get the idea of what I'm going through. Your input and help would be really appreciated.


Thanks and regards!

MO
 
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