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Kettlebell Introduction: Bonkin (Mike)

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Bonkin

Bonkin

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Hey y'all. I'm Bonkin (also known as Mike). I'm pretty new to the forums and have already learned quite a lot in the couple weeks or so just lurking and reading. By day, I'm a 50 year old software developer (6'0" 220#). By night, I'm trying to lose weight and get stronger.

For some history, I mostly only played video games and the occasional beer-league softball team with friends from work. When I turned 40, I was tired of being a fat sloth and went on a diet and started walking. This quickly turned to running and I ran my first marathon 9 months later. I went on to run a few more marathons and then turned to ultra marathons - mostly 6 hour, 8 hour, 50KM and eventually a 50 miler - at which point I felt burned out, quit running, and got fat again. After this I had a brief foray into things like Starting Strength and really developed a liking for strength training. Somewhere along the way, I learned about kettlebells and bought and read Pavel's books: ETK and S&S. I bought some bells, but never really went far with it and they ended up somewhere in the garage.

This year, I started out around 245# (not really sure exact weight as I'd stopped getting on it after I hit 240) and was surprised to find that my wife had made a doctor's appointment for me. I usually don't go to the doctor unless something's wrong and almost cancelled the appointment. But I went just to "shut her up" because I was "fine". Well, when the doctor told me I had high blood pressure and I came back with BP prescription, I had to admit to her that maybe I wasn't fine. So I started walking and listening to her and my doctor. When my blood work came back, it turned out I also had high cholesterol and was pre-diabetic. So I continued walking and started cutting back on the calories (but continued eating crap). I lost 15# along the way, so I was pretty happy when I went in for my most recent checkup. The doctor informed me that while the medications and walking had improved my BP and cholesterol numbers significantly - my pre-diabetes had turned into diabetes. I left his office in a shock and frankly I can't recall a moment when I've been more scared. He knows I'm not the biggest fan of being on medication, so he gave me a glucose meter and gave me three months to clean up my diet and lose more weight. The long term goal is to get down to 185# - but the doc wants me to be at 205# by the end of the year.

I've never been one to mope around - so I went home that night and cleaned out the pantry and fridge of the crap I used to eat. I also wanted to improve upon my now-irregular walking and get back to a little running and make use of those cannonball shaped dust collectors that were out in my garage somewhere. I re-read S&S and decided to clean out my garage to reclaim my workout area and dusted off the kettlebells. The 16KG that felt sort of light a few years ago felt heavy to me now. So I swallowed my pride - even though I probably didn't need the extra calories - and found the 8KG and 12KG. The 12KG was perfect for swings - enough to leave me in a giant pool of sweat on the floor. I used the 8KG to relearn the TGU. I wanted to do it everyday, but I managed 5 days the first week. Over the next few weeks, I just kept doing it 5 days a week.

I'm down another 10# (220) and can easily hit the time standard for swings and TGUs with the 12KG. This week, I've started using my 16KG for a few sets of each and I've already started shopping for my next kettle bell. A lot of what I've read leads me to believe that many folks go up 8KG at a time (i.e. from 16KG to 24KG), I feel like it may be better for me to go up 4KG at a time and get a 20KG for my next one. Would definitely appreciate any input on this.

I also have a question around the times. For some reason, I thought every workout should be aimed towards hitting the 5 minute swings and 10 minute TGUs with a 1 minute rest in between, but at some point today or yesterday I read that maybe I mis-interpreted and I should chill out and just do the workout day to day and test my times occasionally. Am I missing something here? At the moment, I'm going for the time targets every workout. And while I feel pretty good and am able to do it 5 times a week - I don't feel recovered enough to do it 7 times per week. Also note that in addition to the S&S workouts, I'm walking or riding my bike (easy) for 45 minutes to an hour 5-6 times per week. I'm also cutting 500 calories per day and not eating my exercise calories (if you follow me) - so probably more like 900-1000 calorie deficit.

I've also found that there are a lot of SFG I and II people not far from me and will contact one soon to check my form and correct any issues before the weights get heavier. I'm also considering a SF Kettlebell class but the nearest one (I'm in the DFW area) is a 9 hour drive - so we will see.

Anyway, any advice or input is welcome. I hope to learn a lot from this great community and look forward to interacting with you all. Thanks for "listening" and if you felt like you just read a marathon, I have some spare medals you can have.

P.S. The simplicity of S&S also attracts me strongly to PttP (which I also just read). I love the power lifts and want to eventually work on improving on my old bests. My monkey brain wants to do S&S and PttP at the same time, but for now I am attempting to keep things super simple - so I will wait and just work on S&S.

TLDR - Old fat guy fell in love with kettle bells and is saying hello.
 
Hi Bonkin (a.k.a. Mike), welcome here!

My name is Francesco, I'm from Italy and it's a pleasure to read someone that is already strong enough to accept diabetes and "fight" it like you are doing. You're already proving strength far beyond weighlifting and, in turns, your weighlifting journey will feel like a walk in the park, I'm sure!

First of all, keep in mind my next advices and/or considerations are based on my personal experience only of things I tried on my own body, I'm not an expert by any means.

Bell jumps
There's nothing wrong in 4 kg increases. I went from 16 kg, to 24 and now mostly 32 for S&S just for storage space needs, otherwise I think I would have bought every 4 kg increment in between, especially the 28 kg bell. If you look here in this website and on the StronFirst's YouTube channel, there are at least one article and one video (which is from one of Pavel's seminar, not sure about the author of the article though) on which "percieved weight increment" is discussed. I'll post a link if I find any of these two links, right now I can't. Bottom line is: if you feel that a 4 kg increment is better than a 8 kg one, any reason being, my advice is progress in 4 kg steps. My jump from 16 kg from 24s was demanding, from 24s to 32s is being hellish.

Time test
I have time restrictions that "impose" me to test everyday, and has been like that since day 1. Like I always say at the cost of sounding a verbouse fool, it is not how the program is meant to be followed. It certainly does work for me, as I'm two sessions in after meeting Simple standard for swings (get ups will come along in the next months), it's still something I tested a lot before doing. If you'd like to have more informations about my initial self evaluation and testing phase, I'll be more than happy to explain it to you, for now, just know that, in my opinion, training everyday meeting the time standards requires a lot of knwoledge of yourself and your present fitness capabilities (you can't joke with fatigue and heart rate) and a very careful progression scheme to be developed.
If I had time, I'd probably put down a volume/density scheme to follow. Again, self evaluation is crucial.
EDIT: better say "If I didnt' have such time limitation, I'd probably bla, bla, and bla...". I made a similar scheme for snatches that I follow during weekends and takes no more than 10 minutes, I can't tell you if it's working beacuse I'm too few workouts in.

SFG class
In a few words: go have classes. Personal ones would be better, but any form of class headed by an SFG will change your view on StrongFirst principle. Mine did and, in November, I'm hopefully attending a one day "seminar" with Master SFG Fabio Zonin... I'm nothing less than psyched! Talk to him/her about anything you'd like to know about lifting and programming: direct experience will do tricks and magics, you'll see!

Inside the limits impose by my ignorance of the argument, I'm here for anything you want to discuss further!

Keep in mind that, again, at least to me you're already stronger than many. Cheers from Italy!
 
@Bonkin Mike, that was a great intro. You will find all of the motivation and answers you need on this forum.

As far as S&S, you are not supposed to attempt to hit the time standards each session, not even close. There are people, much more knowledgeable than I as far as the heart rate/readiness, that I'm sure will chime in soon. The goal is power and you need to be fully rested before each set.
 
@Frank_IT and @MattM

Thanks very much for the kind words, warm welcome, and advice. I will definitely stop stressing about the time and and focus on getting the workouts done - it sounds like this will be what I need to move up to 7 S&S sessions per week. Regarding HR, I have started wearing my monitor during the sessions, but just recording for now. I know quite a bit about where I need to be when running - but admittedly know very little about how to use HR to guide non-running activities. I would love to hear from others on their experiences on using HR to guide their workouts. I find HR a useful tool, especially when learning, later I can go by feel, but for me, in the beginning it was useful to learn what is too much work versus not enough work for the current goal.

It is very easy for me to overdo things too soon, and I've learned that is my leading cause of burnout - so I'm trying to keep things very simple while minimizing the physical/mental stress so that I can sustain things for the long term. When I was doing powerlifting, I found myself testing my 1RM too often, not realizing until it was too late, that this was contributing to the burnout. Currently, I struggle almost daily to not run even though I know my body is not ready - for now the reduction in my resting HR and the numbers on the scale tell me that S&S and walking are enough for me for now.

I will definitely get something scheduled with a local SFG soon and will look more seriously into trying to attend the class in Birmingham,AL in December as it is the closest one to me on the current schedule. I'll also check out the article and video you mentioned, Frank, and then decide on which bell to purchase next. I found it very motivating to see the next bell against the wall when I was beginning with 12KG, so I think it will be wise to have my next one sitting there as I finish moving up to the 16KG.

You've made me feel a lot more comfortable with where I am and where I'm going. Thanks again, it is very nice to be a part of a great community!
 
Welcome, Mike! I agree, a great intro. Congratulations on your choices so far, sounds like you are headed in the right direction. Keep it up, and keep us posted! I'll add my input... just advice to take into consideration as you wish.

I agree with Frank, nothing wrong with 4kg jumps. Sounds like you are deliberate and consistent in your approach (good things) and 20kg will probably be great to have next. But if you decide to go to the 24kg that can work also.

Right, don't attempt to hit the time goals each session -- just practice, and go for next set/rep when your breathing has slowed down and you feel your power is restored for the next one. But I wouldn't think there's been any harm done thusfar with the weight you're working with.

I'm almost the same age as you, and I look for HR in the 120s - 140s when swinging, snatching, etc. (HR peaks just after the set, then settles back down towards 100-120ish). If I'm in the 150s or higher in the peaks, I'm running too hot and I add recovery time. Exception would be if I'm doing a 5-min swing or snatch test, then I'll be in the 160 - 170s. Best thing is observe your HR and get to know how you feel, recovery-wise. Use it as one source of information, but not as your absolute guide.

The class in Dec would be great, and any time with local SFG highly recommended. I believe Master SFG / Chief SFB Karen Smith is right in your area. She's beyond awesome!!
 
Frank_IT said:
in November, I'm hopefully attending a one day "seminar" with Master SFG Fabio Zonin... I'm nothing less than psyched!
Click to expand...
Fabio is awesome - crazy strong, tons and tons of experience, an excellent teacher, and you won't find a nicer, more down-to-earth guy.

In fact, and I've said this to Pavel before, I am really impressed with each and every one of our Master SFG's - all for different reasons, each brings different things to the table, but all are really first-rate at what they do.

-S-
 
Welcome @Bonkin !

On S&S:

I think @Anna C pointed out the key thing - put your focus and attention on exactly what you are doing. Don't worry about the long term time goals, and don't worry about getting 100 swings. When you are swinging, focus on making each swing better and more snappy than the last. Stop the set when you feel like you next swing will be less powerful, or if the one you just did wasn't as snappy. Don't worry about getting 10 in a set. When you are resting focus on learning to breath and move between sets in a way that allows you to recover faster. Do the next set when you can talk comfortably hold a conversation. Don't worry about getting 100 for the day. Add a rep and a set here and there. The rest time will come down naturally. If you put your focus on making each rep and each set better = more "snappy", stopping before they get worse, and resting and moving intentionally to see what helps you recover faster, the goal will eventually just happen.

On Diabetes: I'm assuming you have TypeII - That is your body is making plenty of insulin, but your receptors have become desensitized.
  • As you seem to be well aware, your first line of defense is your diet. If you limit your consumption of insulin spiking foods (and food combinations) you can likely live without medication.
  • Your strength training will also help, as it is a conscious activity you can use to "manually" open the cellular doors (that are missing the insulin signal to open) and let sugar out of your blood stream.
  • If you severely limit you exposure on the scale of months you can probably regain some sensitivity to insulin and work your way back into the "pre-diabetic" range and perhaps better. See this paper: Dietary carbohydrate restriction as the first approach in diabetes management: critical review and evidence base.
  • I also highly recommend the book Strong Medicine.
One Final note: Focus your energy on making permanent upgrades to your life (Start with the notion of lasting change) and on making the upgrades to your life permanent (Put daily effort into build and nurturing the new habits).

Hope something in there helps!
 
Everybody else is right about there being nothing wrong with 4kg bell jumps. But I'm going to encourage you to go for the 24, I have faith in you! If you feel you really need the 20, then buy both at the same time. If not, and you're anything like me, you'll spend far more time with the 20 than you really need to.
Think about the difference like this, it's 16% less work to use the 20 than the 24. That's 8,800 kg a month you won't be moving with the 20kg bell. And the only "cost" is a slightly more difficult transition period. Maybe you take an extra week or so working the 24kg bell in gradually. You'll still be doing far more work in a much shorter time with the heavier bell.

I obviously don't know you, but I'm going to make an assumption. Your TGU progression from 16 to 24 will feel more difficult than the swing. Because for years you carried around 245 pounds of body weight. With your legs, with your back. Everytime you sat down and stood up, you were "swinging" 245 pounds around. You've had to maintain a base level of strength in swinging muscles just to stand up and move yourself around. But how much overhead work did you do over the last few years? How many situps and lunges and holding heavy things over your head? I would guess not much. My point is that after owning the 16kg a 24kg really won't be that daunting for swings. Those are big muscles that have a lot of quickly developed strength potential and they will be primed by honing your technique for a while with both 12 and 16 swings. The TGU uses smaller muscles, a lot more stabilization, and you are probably coming into this with less development in those muscles. a 20kg bell makes more sense for TGU. But I would argue not at the expense of your swings. Build the big muscles of your posterior chain with swings, and use them to burn off the weight. You have a goal and a deadline. Plus, if you think seeing the 16 sitting there was motivating, the 24 will look huge and will definitely motivate you.

Don't forget to recalculate your caloric needs as you lose weight. You're doing great!
 
@Bonkin congratulations on everything thus far. There is nothing more for me to add that you haven't already determined is working or that someone else hasn't suggested. Keep up the great work.

Also kudos to your doctor for prescribing exercise before going straight to medication. Keep him/her around.
 
Ha ha, aren't kettlebells wonderful? There's something addictive about them that can make even lifelong gym haters (me...) scream "pry my kettlebell out of my dead hands!" :D Welcome! Lots of great information and great people here, as encouraging and addictive as the kettlebells themselves ;)
 
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and and advice on bells and the timing. I feel a lot less stressed about things and ordered my 20KG bell today.

@Anna C
Thanks for the welcome, the advice, and the information on the HR. After looking back at some previous HR data - I followed in tonight's workout and it definitely helped to just look at the HR screen instead of the timer. And I'll definitely look up Karen Smith.

@TravisDirks
Yes I have TypeII. Much thanks for the article on carbohydrate restriction very interesting. I've already cut out all the junk food and "white" carbs and replacing them with more vegetables, fruits and whole grains. For the last few weeks, I've been in what would be called a moderate carbohydrate diet. As you can imagine, I'm still adjusting to the new way of eating. I'll definitely look at reducing the carb count more based on the data I saw in the article. Strong Medicine is downloaded and I'll be reading that after I finish Antifragile.

@Jeffro
Maybe you don't know me, but I feel like your assumptions are spot on. I've just started working the 16 into my sets this week and I'm still a little wobbly on the TGUs - the swings are fine with the 16KG - my recovery time between sets is just a little longer than with the 12KG. As mentioned above, I've ordered the 20KG today. I'll order the 24KG as soon as I can dispose of the evidence of the new 20! Once I master the 16KG, I will put your advice into practice and see how it works for me.

@wespom9
Thanks and yes, he is definitely a keeper. He gave me the option on the cholesterol meds, but I chose to just get on them for now and re-evaluate after I lose more weight (I went from 277 down to 153 - most of the credit goes to the meds) - I can't wait to see how they improve over the next couple of months. I was pretty stoked that he is partnering with me on staying off the diabetes medication as continue to make progress with the diet and exercise.

Once again, thanks everyone for the warm welcome and helping me fine tuning my plans.
 
@Katzedecimal

Thanks! Yes they are and I'm very glad I found my way back to them.

I had an 8KG laying around that I bought for my daughter that she never ended up using so I brought it to a friend at work who has been doing swings with a dumbbell. I taught him (as best as I can) the TGU and he loves it. He also ordered a copy of S&S and has started ordering kettle bells of his own. Now he has spread the message to his girlfriend and she is now the owner of my little old 8KG. I've mentioned this site to him so maybe they will find their way here eventually as well.
 
@Bonkin , like Steve once said, "You're among friends here"! Your awesome introduction deserved nothing less than a (wanna be) awesome welcome! ;) I'd like to add that yes, a 8 kg increment is not impossibile, it's just harder! Keep in mind that there are absolute digits to take into consideration. Again, jumping from 16 to 24 kgs was not that hard, but from 24 to 32 kgs (which is the same absolute amount and an ever smaller % augment) proved and is proving to be a lot harder. Let's take as an example linear progression barbell programs: most of the novice ones have you adding really small increments every sessions, right? Well, that's until you added so many small amounts you can't sustain such progression any longer, and so you start augmenting less or, at one point, switch progam. Kettlebells don't offer you such "easy" way of advancing in your training, and if you want to move forward you have to stay with the same weight for a period of time that vary from short to long depending on many factors. Thing is, in my experience, you'll likely hit the same limit as above: you'll find a weight prograssion that will be better dealt with a smaller weight increment. It's definitely not 12/16, likely not 16/24, if you are strong enough, it may not be 24/32, but you get the point. Try it out, and if at any point you feel like that a 8 kg step is going to be limiting, than drop 4 kg. I'm not a military, a first responder or a professional athlete, and if you are like me, I think there is no need to rush. Of course, there are options to "tweek" the bell by adding plates and weighted straps, which is a clever method to at least try out before buying, if you're a collector like I somehow am! :D
If you attend class with Karen Smith, you are going to be a happy girevik: I (unfortunately) never had the pleasure... but just seeing her videos put me at peace with the bells as she is so quite, so "sweet", if I may say, while teaching, that everything feels easier and better and suddenly those threatening black pieces of iron don't seem so evil anymore like if they were sayin' "d0n't worry, bud, I'm gonna lift myself"... Ok, enough with dreaming: go to Miss Smith class and you won't be disapointed, I put my money on it!

@Steve Freides it's absolutely true! The guy's strong as an ox, I've applied yesterday and can't wait to attend the course! If I may, not only your Master Instructors are awesome. I have direct experience with A. Monari, SFGI, SFGII, SFL, and I always, always tell people how awesome it was and how happy I've been of the money spent. I've been knowing him since high school and we live close, he's always been interested in weightlifting and other sports. He, like Zonin, holds certifications in almost every aspect of strength training and weightlifting, is an OS certified instructor and overall a strong human being. If one's really interested in the StrongFirst philosophy of training, a meeting with such a figure is mandatory, in my opinion. I went with the mindset "better put money on training than recovery" when I started swinging the 24 kg bell. 16 kilograms are manageable for most men, 24 are a whole different animal and I didn't want to get injured. Since then, I've never looked back and started to grow an interest in physical training and health in general, also outside StrongFirst. It was a starting point, a very good and solid one!
This forum is awesome, by the way.
 
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Bonkin said:
This year, I started out around 245# (not really sure exact weight as I'd stopped getting on it after I hit 240) and was surprised to find that my wife had made a doctor's appointment for me. I usually don't go to the doctor unless something's wrong and almost cancelled the appointment. But I went just to "shut her up" because I was "fine". Well, when the doctor told me I had high blood pressure and I came back with BP prescription, I had to admit to her that maybe I wasn't fine. So I started walking and listening to her and my doctor. When my blood work came back, it turned out I also had high cholesterol and was pre-diabetic. So I continued walking and started cutting back on the calories (but continued eating crap). I lost 15# along the way, so I was pretty happy when I went in for my most recent checkup. The doctor informed me that while the medications and walking had improved my BP and cholesterol numbers significantly - my pre-diabetes had turned into diabetes. I left his office in a shock and frankly I can't recall a moment when I've been more scared. He knows I'm not the biggest fan of being on medication, so he gave me a glucose meter and gave me three months to clean up my diet and lose more weight. The long term goal is to get down to 185# - but the doc wants me to be at 205# by the end of the year.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the board!

Like you, I have also been diagnosed with Type II. The shock you experienced is the same as I experienced when I was given the news a couple of years ago. I went all out for about a year, and was close to getting off the meds. Then, well, lets just say I fell off the wagon, massively. I recently started, admittedly half-assed attempt at best, to start getting back in shape and lifting. The additional weight I put on, and the lack of ambition made for no gains. To make it worse, while deadlifting, I strained my lower back. So, I had to find another plan, as that wasn't working for me.

That is how I found this forum. After reading a lot of threads, I have ventured into the kettlebell arena. My blood sugar levels are lowering, and I have lost a couple of pounds already. While I am starting higher than you are, my goal is to be down 10%-15% of my beginning body weight. Now, I need to cut out the crap from my diet as well.

Like those wiser than me have said, stay the course. Focus on form, and the weight will increase. Best of luck to you.
 
Frank_IT said:
@Bonkin , like Steve once said, "You're among friends here"!
Click to expand...

Thanks Francesco. It is definitely feeling that way already! I've gone ahead with ordering the 20KG but will also order the 24KG and try to follow your and @Jeffro advice on giving the heavier (8KG) step up a try - especially on the swings. I've also reached out to Karen Smith and hopefully scheduling something in the coming weeks as time and budget allows.

@Michael Scott Welcome back. I totally get the falling off the wagon. Regarding quitting smoking and weight loss - I don't just have bruises from falling off the wagon - I have callouses! Thanks for your support and best of luck to you on your return.
 
@Bonkin, I hope you'll consider starting a training log here. Each person keeps a thread for themselves, and we have both a Training Logs section and, if you prefer your training log only be visible to users who are logged in to our forum, a Training Logs for Members Only section as well.

-S-
 
Go ahead then, Mike! It's easier to swing heavier than I do TGUs for me too! :)
Based on all your personal factors, I strongly advice again to schedule a meeting with Karen Smith as soon as possibile (I'm quite sure she's on this platform too) for two main reasons:
  • You will speed up your results a lot. I've been evaluated by my SFG II and he was quite surprised of my self teaching, but the little corrections he made proved to be gigantic instead, and in less than three months I had vastly surpassed the gains of the seven previous ones;
  • It's way easier to actually learn a good motor pattern than correcting a bad one. It was true in Martial Arts for me, even more so in weightlifting.
Oh! One last big advice I forgot to give you (and actually the more important thing I've learned on this forum thus far): keep a training journal! There is a training log session in the forum, but if you don't want to use it, I think you should still keep one for yourself and make it a "life journal" as much as possible, writing down exercises, weight used, times, and any other important information you feel worth of.

Go lift, Mike, you're strong! ;)
 
Just chiming in on the type 2 diabetic (or pre-diabetic) topic. I was diagnosed pre-diabetic (hba1c was 5.9) , after several months of strength training and reasonably strict diet my hba1c has come down to 5.2 last week. So it is doable. We can fix it. It is mostly diet. I am sure the exercise helps it along. Eat carb only as last resort. Stay away from sugar by all means. Follow perhaps a carb-free flavor of Warrior Diet for a few months.
 
@Steve Freides and @Frank_IT I have considered it and will start one soon. I've already been keeping a journal on my running log, but this is a much more relevant place to keep it.

@Abdul Rasheed Thanks for chiming in. That is great news for you and a good light at the end of the tunnel for me - hopefully it will be a lower A1C score for me rather than a train!
I have cut out a ton of sugar, excepting vegetables and fruits. I will look into the Warrior Diet. Thanks for the advice/input!
 
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