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Kettlebell Iron Cardio

I asked this question about Q&D 044 and IC, but now here’s a variation on it.

After I finish the Giant+KSK alternating block series, I’d like to do IC and KBSF’s LCCJ plan in a 2+2 format weekly, like so:
  • Monday: A
  • Tuesday: B
  • Wednesday: rest
  • Thursday: A
  • Friday: B
  • Saturday: rest
  • Sunday: rest
Which should be A and which B? I’m thinking power should be trained before strength, so A = LCCJ and B = IC. Am I right? Does it matter? Or are there other considerations, like the species of a swallow when calculating air speed velocity?
 
mightstone2k said:
I asked this question about Q&D 044 and IC, but now here’s a variation on it.

After I finish the Giant+KSK alternating block series, I’d like to do IC and KBSF’s LCCJ plan in a 2+2 format weekly, like so:
  • Monday: A
  • Tuesday: B
  • Wednesday: rest
  • Thursday: A
  • Friday: B
  • Saturday: rest
  • Sunday: rest
Which should be A and which B? I’m thinking power should be trained before strength, so A = LCCJ and B = IC. Am I right? Does it matter? Or are there other considerations, like the species of a swallow when calculating air speed velocity?
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Is the swallow laden or unladen?

Power before strength would matter in the same session but separate sessions I do not think it would matter.
 
So, the other thread about breathing through the press came up after the recent email about the same got me to re-evaluate my technique. Other/Mixed - Breathing through the press

As I reported there, I tried the breathing pattern, and I liked it. I had seen that advised in the book, but decided, "my old way's probably fine," and went on about my business. What I can say is that, in the Classic variant, inhaling through the press negative felt good, and it set me up well for the squat. I suspect that it saved me a little time within each set and made recovery between sets easier.

And, a more general IC update: I'm back to singles. I liked my run with doubles. That will stay in my toolbox. However, I'm enjoying spending more time on the more continuous work aspect of singles. I've been alternating Classic with MPx2 to focus more on the press, but I still am not comfortably getting two sets per minute in Classic. I'm working up to 60 sets in 30 minutes. I like the higher spectrum of volume.

I'm thinking about sticking with Classic for a bit and using Delta 20 to vary the volume for a bit. Maybe that focus will help me to get more comfortable with two sets per minute, over the course of my sessions. Then, I can graduate to Traveling 2s and / or MPx2. That's not set in stone; it's just something I've been thinking about trying.

What do you think?
 
Erik W said:
So, the other thread about breathing through the press came up after the recent email about the same got me to re-evaluate my technique. Other/Mixed - Breathing through the press

As I reported there, I tried the breathing pattern, and I liked it. I had seen that advised in the book, but decided, "my old way's probably fine," and went on about my business. What I can say is that, in the Classic variant, inhaling through the press negative felt good, and it set me up well for the squat. I suspect that it saved me a little time within each set and made recovery between sets easier.

And, a more general IC update: I'm back to singles. I liked my run with doubles. That will stay in my toolbox. However, I'm enjoying spending more time on the more continuous work aspect of singles. I've been alternating Classic with MPx2 to focus more on the press, but I still am not comfortably getting two sets per minute in Classic. I'm working up to 60 sets in 30 minutes. I like the higher spectrum of volume.

I'm thinking about sticking with Classic for a bit and using Delta 20 to vary the volume for a bit. Maybe that focus will help me to get more comfortable with two sets per minute, over the course of my sessions. Then, I can graduate to Traveling 2s and / or MPx2. That's not set in stone; it's just something I've been thinking about trying.

What do you think?
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Erik

Looks like a good plan and would rotate the version used while progressing to the 60 sets in 30 min and using Delta 20 should work well.
 
Summerhouse said:
Has anybody tried doing IC on the minute or with fixed rest periods and tried to build up the sets over time as you would do with classic A+A?
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Summerhouse

There are those that use set work:rest ratios (many years ago I did as well) but I have moved away from using them.

Give them a try and experiment a bit.
 
Summerhouse said:
Has anybody tried doing IC on the minute or with fixed rest periods and tried to build up the sets over time as you would do with classic A+A?
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I think this is a psychological or personality type question.

So, I've tried using a timer, and I will say I think it's now, it's tricky for me because I have a tougher time respecting the stop signs when I'm chasing a number. It's easy for me to push myself further than I should.

So, I think for me it's easy for me to over do it in general when I can see the timer and I use it to think thoughts about pressing on when I shouldn't. Picking up the bell even though I haven't sufficiently recovered.

I think for me the most reliable method has been a set number of reps. My trick for this is (and it's still not foolproof ) is that I place the timer out of sight and I go to it to retrieve my 10 rep split time for record. If I'm using the timer to drive my work, instead of using my rest to drive my time, I've exposed myself to overdoing it more often than I otherwise would.

Not wringing out your muscles during your sessions is a feature , not a bug. Mitigating your exposure to the timer may help you get to know your muscles.

how do they feel before the session. How do they feel after a set. What sensations of freshness looseness or excitation do you detect in the muscles that cues you that you're ready for another big exertion?

This bell should be circa 5-6 RM for your press. Putting it into the Air 20-40 times should be something that causes all sorts of little sensations before during and after the lift.

How high is your tension?
How tight is your body?
Have you noticed any little changes to your form?
How do you feel immediately after the set?
How do you feel that signals the next set?
what happens when you wait till your breathing comes down?
what happens when you wait for your heart rate to drop?

I think these kinds of questions are a lot easier to answer when there is no timer. Just reps. Enforcement of high quality reps is the answer.

Limit your volume to a Medium, low, high volume rhythm , which for me that'll be something like 20, 15, 30 for a while, and later when it gets easier 30, 20, 40; and practice enforcement of high quality reps.

I think if you've got a lighter bell and you wanna drive that cardio sensation, go for it . Play with the timer . Play with pacing. For strength and hypertrophy with that heavier bell, the timer might not be your best friend.

but, I get it. I love my timers. I don't want to think. I don't wanna remember. It stresses me out. It's annoying. I would rather in 99% of my training go with a timer and let it help me drive the session.

but for iron cardio, for that strength side, for that heavier bell you're working with, I think erring on the side of more rest is the better bet. And I think it'll help one get to know themselves about rest recovery breathing freshness and readiness for a next set.
 
thanks for the reply Brett jones and Adachi.

Adachi do you do your LCCJ or snatch A+A training timeless as well? I’m thinking if the best way is to autoregulate for A+A training same as you would for Iron Cardio do we even need to do A+A otm training and risk losing valuable training time by hitting stop signs too early… eg you could end up only having a 10 min session of OTM training if you strictly adhere to timed rest periods but could long the session out and still stay in an aerobic zone for 30-40 mins if you auto-regulated and only started the next set when fully ready?
 
Summerhouse said:
Adachi do you do your LCCJ or snatch A+A training timeless as well?
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Historically I have not. But I may in the future. Perhaps I'm a victim of giving much better advice than I take, but I have tended towards timed sets where relatively complete recovery is all but guaranteed; a Hallmark of Strong Endurance Protocols. Eg. 10 x 10 @ 3min. With a moderate weight.
Summerhouse said:
you could end up only having a 10 min session of OTM training if you strictly adhere to timed rest periods but could long the session out and still stay in an aerobic zone for 30-40 mins if you auto-regulated and only started the next set when fully ready?
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You very well could experience such a scenario. I am a reluctant convert to untimed training. But I'm continuing to increase the depths of my suspicions that for strength there is no such thing as too much rest. I don't believe this to be infinitely true, but I suspect that it is more deeply true than I'd previously believed.

Relatively complete recovery (call it feeling 80% + the same as to how I felt before I started the session) before beginning the next set has been way more efficacious than I'd anticipated.
 
Very interesting. I’m guessing there is a line that if you step over it just becomes pure strength/power training rather than strong endurance?
 
Summerhouse said:
Very interesting. I’m guessing there is a line that if you step over it just becomes pure strength/power training rather than strong endurance?
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Strong Endurance™ covers a LOT of ground.
www.strongfirst.com

STRONG ENDURANCE™ by Pavel | StrongFirst

There are times when enduring is not enough. One must carry on at high levels of strength, speed, or power. Enter Strong Endurance from Pavel Tsatsouline.
www.strongfirst.com
Including strength, power, endurance, and hypertrophy.
 
paules said:
I often do BW/Iron Cardio sessions consisting of chins x 2, dips x 2, TBDL x 1. As long as you stay within the guardrails IC provides endless options beyond Clean, Press and FSQ.
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Hi Paules. Do you mind telling me what weight you've been using on the trap bar deadlifts please? With Iron Cardio, weight is normally selected by the KB you can press for 5rm but with your circuit that's not a limiting factor. Just looking for a rough idea of what to try. Thank you.
 
Simon485 said:
Hi Paules. Do you mind telling me what weight you've been using on the trap bar deadlifts please? With Iron Cardio, weight is normally selected by the KB you can press for 5rm but with your circuit that's not a limiting factor. Just looking for a rough idea of what to try. Thank you.
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Hi Simon, in this sequence I typically use a weight that’s close to my 5RM in the TBDL. Chins, dips and TBDL is a great combination. Let me know how you go.
 
Simon485 said:
Thanks for the reply Paules. Do you also weight your chins and dips?
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Sometimes but not usually. I am not very strong in the BW versions yet e.g. both are around 8RM (I can get to 10 from time to time). The benefits for me come from the volume over the course of the IC session. I might start adding weight more regularly when I get both BW chins and dips to 10RM more consistently. In any event, weighted chins and dips combined with heavy TBDLs might take me outside the guardrails of IC.
 
Saturday's IC + A&A Session:

10 minutes of Clean, Press, Squat and Pullup - 16 reps at 28 KG
5 Swings EMOM @ 32KG for 6 Minutes

AVG HR: 154 BPM
MAX HR: 175 BPM

10 minutes easy swimming 168 meters (we have a weirdly sized pool here)
 
@Brett Jones , I have heard Dan John recommend ABC with uneven bells: Bell1+Bell2 -> Bell2+Bell1 -> ... .
Did you ever try it? What was your experience?
For me - I think I can get away with a single clean and multiple uneven double front squats - but that would be it.
Also - I question if anything but uneven front squats is safe enough.
 
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