Brandon Trahan
Level 5 Valued Member
From what I’ve seen brett adds them At the end as a finisher. Correct me if I’m wrong @Brett Jones
Kettlebell Iron Cardio
- Thread starter BJJ Shawn
- Start date
Brett Jones
StrongFirst Director of Education
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Beast Tamer
@Red_and_Black
As Xene and Brandon noted I typically either add them after the IC work (total of 50 or so swings—sometimes 100 but it depends on the intensity of the IC session).
Or on a separate day to take a bit of a break from the overhead work.
I prefer either OTM, every-30seconds, or Timeless for the swings.
As Xene and Brandon noted I typically either add them after the IC work (total of 50 or so swings—sometimes 100 but it depends on the intensity of the IC session).
Or on a separate day to take a bit of a break from the overhead work.
I prefer either OTM, every-30seconds, or Timeless for the swings.
Mike Torres
Senior Instructor, Jiu-Jitsu Brown Belt
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
While I didn't write the book 
I'm with Brett on this one.
I've been (on occasion) adding some swings to the end of my IC session, usually 5-7 swings OTM for 10-15 minutes. I try and use a 'goldilocks' bell that gives me the most snap / power production. But since I also do BJJ 5x/week, this is a little rare for me.
More often, I've been adding an A+A day every 2-3 sessions, where I do some longer sessions (20-60 min) of 5-7 OTM, or shorter (10-20 min) of 3-5 swings every 30 seconds. I select between H2H swings (my fave), 1-arm swings, and 2-arm swings depending on how I feel. I sometimes do snatches instead with the same protocol, minding the fact that it's more overhead work.
I'm with Brett on this one. I've been (on occasion) adding some swings to the end of my IC session, usually 5-7 swings OTM for 10-15 minutes. I try and use a 'goldilocks' bell that gives me the most snap / power production. But since I also do BJJ 5x/week, this is a little rare for me.
More often, I've been adding an A+A day every 2-3 sessions, where I do some longer sessions (20-60 min) of 5-7 OTM, or shorter (10-20 min) of 3-5 swings every 30 seconds. I select between H2H swings (my fave), 1-arm swings, and 2-arm swings depending on how I feel. I sometimes do snatches instead with the same protocol, minding the fact that it's more overhead work.
Brett Jones
StrongFirst Director of Education
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Beast Tamer
Mike,While I didn't write the book
I've been (on occasion) adding some swings to the end of my IC session, usually 5-7 swings OTM for 10-15 minutes. I try and use a 'goldilocks' bell that gives me the most snap / power production. But since I also do BJJ 5x/week, this is a little rare for me.
More often, I've been adding an A+A day every 2-3 sessions, where I do some longer sessions (20-60 min) of 5-7 OTM, or shorter (10-20 min) of 3-5 swings every 30 seconds. I select between H2H swings (my fave), 1-arm swings, and 2-arm swings depending on how I feel. I sometimes do snatches instead with the same protocol, minding the fact that it's more overhead work.
Just to highlight...I have been leaning towards two-arm swings since I do so much unilateral work within the IC single bell sessions and I agree on the goldilocks bell.
HarryBergers
Level 6 Valued Member
@Brett Jones any hints on a recommended warmup? The only time warmup is mentioned in the book is in your log at the end, 20kg snatches before 48kg 1arm swings. I've been doing goblet squats and halos and am noticing that my first few sets are still basically warmup.
femme forte
Level 4 Valued Member
This is my approach myself. I'm older so my goals are to make progress while avoiding injury. I like to "trust the process." I've just discovered rucking so I'm adding that to my weekly 3x a week Iron Cardio. I stay in tune with how my body is reacting and pull back if I need to.
Brandon Trahan
Level 5 Valued Member
I just Finished an IC of C + P + S + S. 30 sets in 30 min. Except back to back sets. Left side then immediately right side. It’s a torcher. @Brett Jones Crushed it with this program. Worth every penny.
Brett Jones
StrongFirst Director of Education
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Beast Tamer
Harry,
I go though a bit of foam roller, ground based movement prep, and get-ups (laddering up to the heaviest weight I will use for that day) and might perform one or two sets of two-arm swings and then rest a minute or two and get into the Iron Cardio session.
ron_boston
Level 5 Valued Member
My Iron Cardio experience so far--
Short version: I like it a lot.
Details:
I (49M; priorities are health & longevity) started in October 2022. Other than a 7-day period (due to COVID) where I couldn't train at all, I've been doing it more-or-less continuously. (I have the PDF, not the video.)
What I like:
1. The IC sessions themselves have enough variety to prevent boredom. Yes, I've read all that stuff about how discipline is not boring, or how your muscles don't care if you're bored. But I got really bored on S&S, DFW, etc. For some reason, IC is different--even though it's the exact same 4 exercises (C,P,SQ,SN) each time! I think it's because of the variables (weight, time, rep schemes, etc.). Also, this sounds funny but for anything other than the basic 1 rep of each, there is a mental challenge--with traveling 2's or moving ladders you really have to concentrate so as not to lose your place. (Tip: Before each set, I say aloud what makes that set distinctive. E.g., "Two squats!" Then C,P,SQx2,SN.)
2. It plays well with other stuff. IC is deliberately not intended to be "do this and only this, and on exactly these days." The PDF discusses how to combine it with barbell, bodyweight, S&S, etc. I took some liberties here and extended this principle a bit. I do mainly IC, around 3-4 days a week. But I combine it with other stuff, based on my time available, how I'm feeling, etc. (See below for more on this.)
3. Because it's a fairly flexible/loose template, it's not really a huge problem to miss a day, or shorten a session compared to what you might have originally planned for that day, or lengthen one. I've found some other programs where you need to do exactly x, y, and z on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to be too inflexible to deal with the vagaries of my life.
How I've done it
Warm-ups:
I'm 49 with a desk job, I train in the early morning, and my lower back is creaky when I first wake up, so I do a long warmup. Typically I do some mobility stuff on a yoga mat; then {30s of jumping jacks, 30s of hip hinges, 30s of air squats, 30s of standing T-spine rotations} x2, then 10min medium-pace on the rowing ergometer; then some light swings, cleans, presses, and rows with a 16kg.
The program:
When I'm doing IC, I try to do it as closely as possible to as described in the PDF. I vary all the parameters based on time available (e.g. a time crunch on a weekday morning may make a 20min session more likely than 40min), heart rate variability, soreness, etc. I've found moving ladders can be mentally hard to keep track of, and I know I've messed up the count on them several times, but in the end, does it really matter? I use Brett's advice that when you get 2 sets per minute, it's time to upgrade to a more challenging version.
On non-IC days, I rotate around the following:
a. About once every two weeks (never more than once per week), when I'm feeling awesome, I do an "intensity day" (insanity day?) where I do some weird challenge or timed AMRAP or HIIT or Tabata or something (with or without KBs) that's designed to leave me gasping and sweating. I think it's good to occasionally hit those high heart rates, and it satisfies any "itch" to be able to occasionally try something totally different.
b. Brett says in the book "this is not jogging." So I thought, what if I made something that was effectively the kb equivalent of jogging? So maybe once every two weeks, I'll use the heart rate monitor to do what I call "KB jogging" -- semi-random kb stuff for a block of time with the goal of keeping my HR continuously in the 125-135 range (Maffetone zone for me). This could include stretches of the IC moves, but not in the IC protocol, sometimes with a lighter weight so as to keep it continuous. I just constantly titrate to keep my HR in the zone.
c. Usually 1-2 days per week, I'll just walk on the treadmill in my basement (while watching TV). Depending on how I'm feeling, that could mean either in the Maffetone zone (with a steep incline), or lower but still doing some aerobic work (e.g. HR ~ 105-110), or when something is really off, just very low-key (3.0 mph, 0% incline) for pure recovery.
d. ~1 day/week, I do a slow-strength day. This could include TGUs, windmills, etc. I also use some machines at the gym these days to work muscles & angles I don't usually hit.
e. Some days, I can't make it to the gym, so I use my basement. I have an acceptable kb collection, but the ceiling is low so I can neither press nor snatch. So on those days, I replace the press with pushups (off the kbs), and eliminate the snatch. (I consider this a modified IC.)
E.g., over a 2-week span, I might do 6d Iron Cardio, 3d treadmill, 2d slow-strength, 1d "KB jogging," 1d intensity, and 1 just plain "off" day.
Finishers:
Most weekdays, I don't have time to do anything after the IC session. If it was a 20-min session, sometimes I'll do the IC swings finisher that Brett prescribes. On weekends, lately I've been trying the "Snatch Walking Protocol for Ultra-Athletes" as a finisher. I just take a ridiculously light kb to the indoor track at my gym and snatch-walk while people look at me funny.
How I've tracked progress:
Since my personal goal here is health & longevity (and the program is "Iron *Cardio*") I decided to use morning resting heart rate as my metric. As it happens, for some time I've been tracking my morning resting heart rate nearly every day, so I have data going back quite a while. On the day I bought the program (10/8/22), my RHR was 54. Today (1/10/23), it was 48. My lowest was 43 on 11/29/22. And remember, this is without any running or high-impact work.
So you can see that the conditioning is my primary focus and the strength is secondary. Someone else might do it exactly opposite. I know Mark Rippetoe says "A resting heart rate of 48 BPM is very cool, but it's not nearly as useful as a 405-pound deadlift," but I've got some family history with heart disease so my calculus is different. It's not that I don't want to be "strong first" so much as the muscle that I'm interested in training the most right now is my heart, and I'm content to let my clean, press, squat, and snatch improve at a slow pace as a secondary aspect of that work. It's quite possible I'm not using the program as Brett intended but this seems to be working well for me.
I don't think this would be a great program to build max/1RM strength & I don't think Brett markets it as such. I think my strength-endurance has improved somewhat -- I haven't tested this, but I suspect that, with the main weight I started off based on my 6RM, I could now get a lot more than 6. (I should probably test that - may do so later this week.) I also haven't done a before/after test of some performance-based conditioning measure (e.g. time for 1-mile run) but I've got to believe that the lower RHR pays off aerobically on stuff like that.
Conclusion:
I've run this now for 3 full months and it's the longest I've ever stuck to one program without getting bored. That's partly because it's not a "monogamous" program -- it encourages you to do other stuff on non-Iron Cardio days -- but also because it has enough variability within the IC template itself. On the key parameter I decided to track from the outset, RHR, I've seen an 11% improvement in 3 months, putting me in a range usually associated with joggers, cyclists, etc. It's enjoyable, produces measurable cardio benefits without joint impact, probably improves strength, and is compatible with doing a few days here and there of other things (be they other types of cardio, or more strength-focused). Endorse!
Short version: I like it a lot.
Details:
I (49M; priorities are health & longevity) started in October 2022. Other than a 7-day period (due to COVID) where I couldn't train at all, I've been doing it more-or-less continuously. (I have the PDF, not the video.)
What I like:
1. The IC sessions themselves have enough variety to prevent boredom. Yes, I've read all that stuff about how discipline is not boring, or how your muscles don't care if you're bored. But I got really bored on S&S, DFW, etc. For some reason, IC is different--even though it's the exact same 4 exercises (C,P,SQ,SN) each time! I think it's because of the variables (weight, time, rep schemes, etc.). Also, this sounds funny but for anything other than the basic 1 rep of each, there is a mental challenge--with traveling 2's or moving ladders you really have to concentrate so as not to lose your place. (Tip: Before each set, I say aloud what makes that set distinctive. E.g., "Two squats!" Then C,P,SQx2,SN.)
2. It plays well with other stuff. IC is deliberately not intended to be "do this and only this, and on exactly these days." The PDF discusses how to combine it with barbell, bodyweight, S&S, etc. I took some liberties here and extended this principle a bit. I do mainly IC, around 3-4 days a week. But I combine it with other stuff, based on my time available, how I'm feeling, etc. (See below for more on this.)
3. Because it's a fairly flexible/loose template, it's not really a huge problem to miss a day, or shorten a session compared to what you might have originally planned for that day, or lengthen one. I've found some other programs where you need to do exactly x, y, and z on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to be too inflexible to deal with the vagaries of my life.
How I've done it
Warm-ups:
I'm 49 with a desk job, I train in the early morning, and my lower back is creaky when I first wake up, so I do a long warmup. Typically I do some mobility stuff on a yoga mat; then {30s of jumping jacks, 30s of hip hinges, 30s of air squats, 30s of standing T-spine rotations} x2, then 10min medium-pace on the rowing ergometer; then some light swings, cleans, presses, and rows with a 16kg.
The program:
When I'm doing IC, I try to do it as closely as possible to as described in the PDF. I vary all the parameters based on time available (e.g. a time crunch on a weekday morning may make a 20min session more likely than 40min), heart rate variability, soreness, etc. I've found moving ladders can be mentally hard to keep track of, and I know I've messed up the count on them several times, but in the end, does it really matter? I use Brett's advice that when you get 2 sets per minute, it's time to upgrade to a more challenging version.
On non-IC days, I rotate around the following:
a. About once every two weeks (never more than once per week), when I'm feeling awesome, I do an "intensity day" (insanity day?) where I do some weird challenge or timed AMRAP or HIIT or Tabata or something (with or without KBs) that's designed to leave me gasping and sweating. I think it's good to occasionally hit those high heart rates, and it satisfies any "itch" to be able to occasionally try something totally different.
b. Brett says in the book "this is not jogging." So I thought, what if I made something that was effectively the kb equivalent of jogging? So maybe once every two weeks, I'll use the heart rate monitor to do what I call "KB jogging" -- semi-random kb stuff for a block of time with the goal of keeping my HR continuously in the 125-135 range (Maffetone zone for me). This could include stretches of the IC moves, but not in the IC protocol, sometimes with a lighter weight so as to keep it continuous. I just constantly titrate to keep my HR in the zone.
c. Usually 1-2 days per week, I'll just walk on the treadmill in my basement (while watching TV). Depending on how I'm feeling, that could mean either in the Maffetone zone (with a steep incline), or lower but still doing some aerobic work (e.g. HR ~ 105-110), or when something is really off, just very low-key (3.0 mph, 0% incline) for pure recovery.
d. ~1 day/week, I do a slow-strength day. This could include TGUs, windmills, etc. I also use some machines at the gym these days to work muscles & angles I don't usually hit.
e. Some days, I can't make it to the gym, so I use my basement. I have an acceptable kb collection, but the ceiling is low so I can neither press nor snatch. So on those days, I replace the press with pushups (off the kbs), and eliminate the snatch. (I consider this a modified IC.)
E.g., over a 2-week span, I might do 6d Iron Cardio, 3d treadmill, 2d slow-strength, 1d "KB jogging," 1d intensity, and 1 just plain "off" day.
Finishers:
Most weekdays, I don't have time to do anything after the IC session. If it was a 20-min session, sometimes I'll do the IC swings finisher that Brett prescribes. On weekends, lately I've been trying the "Snatch Walking Protocol for Ultra-Athletes" as a finisher. I just take a ridiculously light kb to the indoor track at my gym and snatch-walk while people look at me funny.
How I've tracked progress:
Since my personal goal here is health & longevity (and the program is "Iron *Cardio*") I decided to use morning resting heart rate as my metric. As it happens, for some time I've been tracking my morning resting heart rate nearly every day, so I have data going back quite a while. On the day I bought the program (10/8/22), my RHR was 54. Today (1/10/23), it was 48. My lowest was 43 on 11/29/22. And remember, this is without any running or high-impact work.
So you can see that the conditioning is my primary focus and the strength is secondary. Someone else might do it exactly opposite. I know Mark Rippetoe says "A resting heart rate of 48 BPM is very cool, but it's not nearly as useful as a 405-pound deadlift," but I've got some family history with heart disease so my calculus is different. It's not that I don't want to be "strong first" so much as the muscle that I'm interested in training the most right now is my heart, and I'm content to let my clean, press, squat, and snatch improve at a slow pace as a secondary aspect of that work. It's quite possible I'm not using the program as Brett intended but this seems to be working well for me.
I don't think this would be a great program to build max/1RM strength & I don't think Brett markets it as such. I think my strength-endurance has improved somewhat -- I haven't tested this, but I suspect that, with the main weight I started off based on my 6RM, I could now get a lot more than 6. (I should probably test that - may do so later this week.) I also haven't done a before/after test of some performance-based conditioning measure (e.g. time for 1-mile run) but I've got to believe that the lower RHR pays off aerobically on stuff like that.
Conclusion:
I've run this now for 3 full months and it's the longest I've ever stuck to one program without getting bored. That's partly because it's not a "monogamous" program -- it encourages you to do other stuff on non-Iron Cardio days -- but also because it has enough variability within the IC template itself. On the key parameter I decided to track from the outset, RHR, I've seen an 11% improvement in 3 months, putting me in a range usually associated with joggers, cyclists, etc. It's enjoyable, produces measurable cardio benefits without joint impact, probably improves strength, and is compatible with doing a few days here and there of other things (be they other types of cardio, or more strength-focused). Endorse!
Brett Jones
StrongFirst Director of Education
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Beast Tamer
ron_boston
Level 5 Valued Member
I think so. You use the same weight for all the moves and your pressing strength is the limiting factor. If you are getting good overhead strength from your bodyweight work (and you are solid in clean & snatch technique) you should be fine.
Brett Jones
StrongFirst Director of Education
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Beast Tamer
Yes—I think it would work well.
Pavel.Kosenkov
Level 5 Valued Member
@Brett Jones , I have looked up the original article. I think in the book it's also not covered. Why aren't we doing clean and jerk in the same fashion? Or - why not swing-clean-press (well, ok, we have a snatch there, so no swing)?
Can you write a couple of lines about the exercise selection? If we are after a heavy press - a press should be there. A clean should be there in order to get the bell to the rack. Ok - I get that.
Why the squat? With a press size bell?
I mean - yeah, why not? This is also a good answer - but is there anything on top of that?
Also - if we are after the work capacity, can we do clean and jerk? The whole body will be involved. And a jerk is not much harder than a press.
Can you write a couple of lines about the exercise selection? If we are after a heavy press - a press should be there. A clean should be there in order to get the bell to the rack. Ok - I get that.
Why the squat? With a press size bell?
I mean - yeah, why not? This is also a good answer - but is there anything on top of that?
Also - if we are after the work capacity, can we do clean and jerk? The whole body will be involved. And a jerk is not much harder than a press.
@Brett Jones Not sure if you missed this or maybe it was a dumb question, but I thought I'd try my luck by posting here once again@Brett Jones I was reading about Zone 2 cardio and its benefits and I couldn't help but think about Iron Cardio. I observed that my HR for roughly 50% of an IC session (whenever I did it) fell into Zone 2. Also makes sense since you suggest using "talk test" as a means to auto-regulate the sets. I've read that one is to keep to the higher end of the zone 2 range to maximise the benefits, IC by nature will have peaks and troughs, and although not super ideal I still think IC works very well on an average for zone 2. Did you notice changes to your RHR and other zone 2 benefits? I would assume that you are the only one who has done this protocol the longest to notice these changes !!
PS: This is coming from an enthusiast and not someone who has a degree in exercise science or physiology. I'm trying to educate myself here so please feel free to correct me if I am way off !
Brett Jones
StrongFirst Director of Education
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Beast Tamer
It is covered in the book where I show the ability to use this as an SFG II focus incorporating the Jerk, or Push-press, or long push-press.
I do mention in video that the swing can be substituted for the snatch or can be added if you wish. I just have not found a single swing to have the impact of adding the snatch.
The off set (single side squat) has a lot of anti-rotation benefits and unilateral loading benefits and when you start accumulating 40-60 sets/reps (or more if performing traveling 2s or a rep ladder for squats) it has a good impact for the squat.
The StrongFirst Kettlebells program (strongandfit.com) has a great Jerk section and is a great program to follow.
(and has been discussed on some of the newsletters)
I think the C&J is a great A&A style program and is just a bit different from the strength focus of Iron Cardio.
While we wait for Brett to revert, I can share that I have often used Jerk as a replacement to Press.
I can't press right now without some pain in my left shoulder, so I only jerk or snatch. I just completed a C+J session alternating hands every 30 seconds, with a weight ladder - 24, 28, 32 for 30 sets. It was great !!
Brett Jones
StrongFirst Director of Education
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Beast Tamer
Re: Zone 2@Brett Jones Not sure if you missed this or maybe it was a dumb question, but I thought I'd try my luck by posting here once again
If we are using the Maffetone definition then we want a consistent heart rate not an "average heart rate" that ends up being in the Zone 2 area so the "peaks and valleys" of an Iron Cardio session would take it out of this definition.
Also the consistent heart rate and no "high tension" work (discussed in the book—pressure load and volume load issues) is an important aspect of Zone 2 work IMO.
RE: Resting heart rate
I don't track my resting heart rate but when the Dr. checks it it does seem to have decreased.
From @ron_boston above: "On the key parameter I decided to track from the outset, RHR, I've seen an 11% improvement in 3 months, putting me in a range usually associated with joggers, cyclists, etc."
Pavel.Kosenkov
Level 5 Valued Member
All good answers, that I should have had figured out myself. Shame on me.
Thank you Brett,