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Bodyweight Is Hill sprint optimal for power training??

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Hwan

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I mean, really short and intense hill sprints.

My workout goal is to be the most athletic and strong version of myself. (I do Judo and planning to learn mma soon)

so fat loss is not a big issue for me, but i just wanna be powerful and strong.

Does the hill sprint fits my purpose?? Would it help my double legs, throws, punches etc. a lot?
IMO it would help me with power in great degrees and even some cardio.

compared to other explosive exercises such as Olympic lifts, depth jumps, box jumps etc., How do you guys think?? I tried Olympic lifts before but i thought the learning curve is not worth for me as long as my goal is not setting an record for Olympic lifte and don't have any qualified Olympic lifting coach.
 
I don't know if this awnser your question but besides from the amazing stuff S&S are doing to my overall strength I must say that tough trail running has made wonders for my strength and athleticism. It builds strong legs, ankles and core and really challenge the whole body when done in moderate to high pace.

So far the kettlebell work has shown to be a superior tool combined with the running to promote a unstoppable android-version of myself.
 
Steve Freides said:
@Hwan, how's your deadlift or squat, how's your bench press or overhead press?

-S-
Click to expand...

Squat - 155kg (1rm, High bar, Definitely breaking parallel but not enough to say ATG)

Deadlift - 160kg for 3 reps (but this is long time ago. Haven't deadlifted over submaximal weight for more than 1 year. But my squat has gone up so I guess my deadlift has gone up to)

Bench - Never tried heavy weight. but I'm sure that my upper body is relatively weaker compared to lower body.

Btw, my bodyweight is 85kg and I'm 174cm tall
 
and my vertical leap is about 23inch (to let you know my level of power compared to my level strength)
 
Another thing for you to consider, then, is whether improving some of these numbers will improve you in ways you want - I think it just might. I'm good with converting metric to American and vice versa, but thanks.

That your squat has gone up could mean your deadlift has gone up and it could mean nothing about your deadlift. It would be good to have some actual max values, or "sorta" max values.

I don't practice heavy barbell squats, but my recent DL is about the same as yours - but I'm 60 years old and weigh 68 kg. I think you could improve your deadlift because mine is nothing special.

It's good to be strong at a press. Many people work on both - pick one for now.

-S-
 
Stefan Olsson said:
I don't know if this awnser your question but besides from the amazing stuff S&S are doing to my overall strength I must say that tough trail running has made wonders for my strength and athleticism. It builds strong legs, ankles and core and really challenge the whole body when done in moderate to high pace.

So far the kettlebell work has shown to be a superior tool combined with the running to promote a unstoppable android-version of myself.
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing your experience. Now I should try it haha:)
Btw, in what kind of pace did you run?? and distance?
 
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Steve Freides said:
Another thing for you to consider, then, is whether improving some of these numbers will improve you in ways you want - I think it just might. I'm good with converting metric to American and vice versa, but thanks.

That your squat has gone up could mean your deadlift has gone up and it could mean nothing about your deadlift. It would be good to have some actual max values, or "sorta" max values.

I don't practice heavy barbell squats, but my recent DL is about the same as yours - but I'm 60 years old and weigh 68 kg. I think you could improve your deadlift because mine is nothing special.

It's good to be strong at a press. Many people work on both - pick one for now.

-S-
Click to expand...

Yeap sir I really have long way to go since i started lifting less than a couple of years ago, so I'm still a newbie in this world haha.
And I'm undergoing my shoulder rehab so can't do heavy pressing, but just bodyweight push ups.

And any thoughts on the hill sprinting?? I mean, I know that I have to develop my big lifts but at the same time I also wanna build ability to generate my force quickly for general athleticism.

Btw your strength level is amazing for your size and age. were you so much stronger than now when you were young?? How did you get that strength and maintained it for so long? just steady workouts or is there any other secrets?
 
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Everyone should be able to sprint; I can't tell you how you might structure it into a program design, though.

-S-
 
Well I've been looking into training for power as well because I want to start applying some of this strength out in the world to things like Parkour. I don't have the experience to suggest you rely on mine, but here is what I've found out related to your question:
  • I have read repeatedly that hill sprints, even with slight inclines are at the top of many knowledgable trainers lists. Most recently that was reinforced when Joe Defranco, who it seems has helped more than a few guys into the NFL. When asked for what top equipment he'd have to have if he was starting his own gym over a Hill for sprints was number 2 even acknowledging that it's not really equipment. (number one was a Sled for heavy pushing and dragging)
  • The people who I trust seem to agree that Olympic lifts are awesome if you happen to know how to do them well already. Otherwise your looking at potentially weeks or months of learning before you really start hitting power and not technique limits.
  • Power seems to be really application specific. A lot of it has to do with training the nervous system to use what you have better (and not on a conscious level. We're talking about optimal fire patterns for muscle units and what not.) So think about how you want to express power. The main divides seem to be Split stance/one leg at a time(E.g Sprinting), vs two legs working together (E.g. a Broad jump).
  • Over All strength might be your biggest lever. I think even in the same podcast Defranco mentioned he'd only trained one guy ever who didn't need to get stronger. So all of the great advice above applies.
  • The mental model I've built up is that you have a couple of pieces that work together to express power. Max strength, facia/Tendons, Energy Systems, and CNS coordination/learning. Of these Max strength is the easiest lever to move and gives you the most runway before petering out. Energy systems can also be improved, but to a lesser degree. My understanding is that power work for CNS coordination or improving tendon/fascia make a big difference e.g depth jumps, but the effect tops our quick. And many coaches seem to think you can "waste" these methods by using them too early.
  • The conclusion I've come to is to sprint once or twice a week for 3-10 sets of ~10-20 second efforts. I also try to add in Hopping and broad/precision jump at least a couple times a week.
  • All that said, the biggest improvement I've had in explosiveness have definitely come from 2 hand Kettlebell swings, focused on maximizing explosion out of the bottom and hip snap. Putting a year into swings completely retrained my jumping mechanics for the (much) better.
To summarize, you could do a lot worse than hill sprints, but some of the strength based stuff is probably a heck of an opportunity as well. Hope this helps.
 
Oh, one thing I noticed sprinting is the tension in the core. It's almost like the tighter I can get the faster I can go. For this reason I think a standing press, or maybe even loaded carries, like a farmers walk might be a big bang for your buck as well. It feels tension in the core feels really similar to me.
 
Hwan said:
Thank you for sharing your experience. Now I should try it haha:)
Btw, in what kind of pace did you run?? and distance?
Click to expand...

I always run by feel. Trying to improve my foundation rather than pushing hard. The pace differs depending on surface, distance and fatigue. But long runs 15-18km is usually at 5:00-5:20. Shorter 5km tough terrain is abit faster. You can check out my log for more. :)
 
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i have had great success with sprinting and hill sprints in recent years, but the training is unorthodox - when i walk my dog each day i do 2-3 sprints of 80 to 200 yards, some flat, some uphill, taking long breaks of 5 to 10 minutes between sprints, otherwise i walk. Pavel mentioned that i should shorten the distance to about 40 yards and do 6 to 8 per day. What i have found, especially with the hill sprints is that my first step has improved dramatically, which would translate well into your mma sparring.
 
TravisDirks said:
Well I've been looking into training for power as well because I want to start applying some of this strength out in the world to things like Parkour. I don't have the experience to suggest you rely on mine, but here is what I've found out related to your question:
  • I have read repeatedly that hill sprints, even with slight inclines are at the top of many knowledgable trainers lists. Most recently that was reinforced when Joe Defranco, who it seems has helped more than a few guys into the NFL. When asked for what top equipment he'd have to have if he was starting his own gym over a Hill for sprints was number 2 even acknowledging that it's not really equipment. (number one was a Sled for heavy pushing and dragging)
  • The people who I trust seem to agree that Olympic lifts are awesome if you happen to know how to do them well already. Otherwise your looking at potentially weeks or months of learning before you really start hitting power and not technique limits.
  • Power seems to be really application specific. A lot of it has to do with training the nervous system to use what you have better (and not on a conscious level. We're talking about optimal fire patterns for muscle units and what not.) So think about how you want to express power. The main divides seem to be Split stance/one leg at a time(E.g Sprinting), vs two legs working together (E.g. a Broad jump).
  • Over All strength might be your biggest lever. I think even in the same podcast Defranco mentioned he'd only trained one guy ever who didn't need to get stronger. So all of the great advice above applies.
  • The mental model I've built up is that you have a couple of pieces that work together to express power. Max strength, facia/Tendons, Energy Systems, and CNS coordination/learning. Of these Max strength is the easiest lever to move and gives you the most runway before petering out. Energy systems can also be improved, but to a lesser degree. My understanding is that power work for CNS coordination or improving tendon/fascia make a big difference e.g depth jumps, but the effect tops our quick. And many coaches seem to think you can "waste" these methods by using them too early.
  • The conclusion I've come to is to sprint once or twice a week for 3-10 sets of ~10-20 second efforts. I also try to add in Hopping and broad/precision jump at least a couple times a week.
  • All that said, the biggest improvement I've had in explosiveness have definitely come from 2 hand Kettlebell swings, focused on maximizing explosion out of the bottom and hip snap. Putting a year into swings completely retrained my jumping mechanics for the (much) better.
To summarize, you could do a lot worse than hill sprints, but some of the strength based stuff is probably a heck of an opportunity as well. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thank you Travis, it really helped me a lot with organizing my training plans. really appreciate that.
 
Make sure to define your focus. If it is MMA/Judo use most of your energy and time to develop your skills and physical capacity. You can only get fit for sparring by sparring. All additional training shouldn't take much time nor energy.
Two sources to consider are Easy Strength by Pavel and Dan John and MMA Conditioning by Joel Jamison.
 
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