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Other/Mixed Is It Good To Train For Mass (Hypertrophy)?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Another thing we could mention here is the choice of lifts. E.g., we know squatting helps one get bigger legs, and also helps with upper body mass if one is also pressing. We know equally well that the deadlift, done without a controlled negative, offers tremendous potential for improvement without hypertrophy, so the deadlift is an excellent choice for someone who wants to get stronger without getting much bigger.

-S-
 
North Coast Miller said:
Nutrition is probably the biggest reason I DON'T train that way more often, I don't have enough appetite to keep my BW over 185 pounds or so.
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This is kind of what I was thinking of. What if I train for mass but don't eat more than is comfortable and don't try to stay above a certain weight?
 
Steve Freides said:
Another thing we could mention here is the choice of lifts. E.g., we know squatting helps one get bigger legs, and also helps with upper body mass if one is also pressing. We know equally well that the deadlift, done without a controlled negative, offers tremendous potential for improvement without hypertrophy, so the deadlift is an excellent choice for someone who wants to get stronger without getting much bigger.

-S-
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Both of those lifts can also make a mass building program a lot more functional. One of the components of a true hypertrophic program being at least some isolation exercises, really benefits from periodizing heavy lifts done with low volume on the major movement patterns.
 
I read a great article by Marty Gallagher on this matter a while back. Can´t find it now, if I do I´ll share it here.
 
Shahaf Levin said:
Fabio Zonin had competed in a bodybuilding meet without any isolation work and took second place.
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I read that article and a good, solid read it is, a heck of an accomplishment.

I do have one major issue with the premise though. Fabio Zonin has a long history of high level development. IDK if he ever trained isolation or ever was larger or more developed than he was when starting his competition prep but I have a guess.

He did not take a novice and get them ready for a show using the same methods he used in the same amount of time. I suspect it is similar to how I put on a pound a week for three months without increasing my waist size - I've already been there. It is extremely unlikely I could have done that with a 49 year old untrained individual with a comparable amount of training time.
 
North Coast Miller said:
He did not take a novice and get them ready for a show using the same methods he used in the same amount of time. I suspect it is similar to how I put on a pound a week for three months without increasing my waist size - I've already been there. It is extremely unlikely I could have done that with a 49 year old untrained individual with a comparable amount of training time.
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You definitely have a valid point here, it is much easier to come back to a place you have been. However, I got the most muscular trunk I've ever had by just starting bent pressing allot, and I am far far far away from your level of experience.

It might be more than a time frame issue than method, but Fabio's experience cannot answer that. He said at the end that he start programing like this for his trainees, so maybe in the future he'll write a paper showing results for people with varying levels of experience.
 
Oscar said:
I read a great article by Marty Gallagher on this matter a while back. Can´t find it now, if I do I´ll share it here.
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"Jim Steel’s Crazed 63-day Odyssey". Great read (well, Gallagher, so it is a given that it is a great read).
Take a "fat" powerlifter. Make him follow a strict BB diet for a few weeks, and be amazed by the amount of defined muscles he carries. We talk about people who do not do many isolation exercises.
The quote from Steel: “You wouldn’t believe what I found hidden underneath forty pounds of bodyfat!”

My take on hypertrophy is not much different than what has been written so far: some activities require it. As I wrote in the other thread, if you are a climber, you need to add strength and avoid mass. If you are a rugbyman, you need both.
 
IonRod said:
A small dude who can pull more than his BW ... are overdelivering.
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A bw deadlift isn't even a proper warmup. At StrongFirst's SFL certification, we characterize a double bw deadlift as "not weak" but it doesn't count as strong, either. It's where things start to get interesting.

-S-
 
Humans are still social creatures. As far as body comp goes (I'd dare say particularly for the male of the species when it comes specifically to hypertrophy), when an individual devotes the time and effort to a pursuit like physical fitness, it can do wonders for self esteem/mental wellbeing when we also "look the part" while going about our daily business.

I only wish I could honestly declare that I was immune to this.
 
LukeV said:
I asked my wife this question and she says that it's more important that I can carry her shopping bags and open her jars but it's nice that I look like I can carry her shopping bags and open her jars
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My wife of 20+yrs told me it was my build (chest specifically) and long hair that initially drew her in. She still tries to get me growing my hair out again!

While she likes me to carry her bags, she much prefers to watch when I do things like replace the sidewalk, build a treehouse for the kids, paddle the whole family around in a canoe, tear out an old fireplace - any hard work will do :).
 
J Petersen said:
Humans are still social creatures. As far as body comp goes (I'd dare say particularly for the male of the species when it comes specifically to hypertrophy), when an individual devotes the time and effort to a pursuit like physical fitness, it can do wonders for self esteem/mental wellbeing when we also "look the part" while going about our daily business.

I only wish I could honestly declare that I was immune to this.
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If you train as we teach at StrongFirst, you will walk the walk, look the look, get the t-shirt - the whole shebang. :)

I think the devil is in what "look the part" means to each of us. As a 150 lb. adult male, I am happy with what I look like, but I don't look like a bodybuilder. A person who has been raised on action movies and magazine advertisements will likely have a different idea of what constitutes looking the part than I do.

And I'm not that social, either. :)

NB: Mr. Petersen has sat on my front porch, so I'm allowed to give him a little grief here. :) And I'm glad he's on our side.

JMO, YMMV.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
A bw deadlift isn't even a proper warmup. At StrongFirst's SFL certification, we characterize a double bw deadlift as "not weak" but it doesn't count as strong, either. It's where things start to get interesting.

-S-
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This seems a little ridiculous to me. You're "not strong" if you can pull twice your BW?
 
I'm quoting the boss here. People were, if memory serves, milling about and being nervous about meeting the SFL standard, and Pavel got all our attention and then announced that these weren't strength standards, just "not weak" standards. For me, it's a double bodyweight DL for a single, and something less than than for 5 reps, if memory serves.

And again, I'd have to check, but there was an upper limit on BW for that, e.g., I think if you weighed more than 250, you still had to lift on 500 lbs.

-S-
 
SFL Barbell Certification Requirements

THE STRENGTH TEST
  • Deadlift
    • Student must complete 1 repetition (conventional or sumo) with a weight that is equivalent to:
      Men—2 x bodyweight, rounded up to the nearest 5lbs/2.5kg, not to exceed 450lbs/205kg
      Women—1.5 x bodyweight, rounded up to the nearest 5lbs/2.5kg

THE TECHNIQUE TEST
The following skills are tested for 5 reps with the specified weights:
  • Deadlift (conventional or sumo)
    • Men—1.5x bodyweight, rounded up to the nearest 5lbs/2.5kg.
      Women—bodyweight, rounded up to the nearest 5lbs/2.5kg.

 
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