Nutrition Is it true that the greater my body weight, the more difficult it is to maintain that weight?
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Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
Yes, it's certainly possible but there are too many potential factors at work to say exactly why without more information.
You may need to adjust the amount of calories you're consuming to account for your increased body weight. If you're talking primarily about gaining muscle, it's entirely normal for increases in muscle gain to slow down and it becomes harder to continue to make gains the more muscle you have.
If you can give us an idea of what your goals are, where you are at the moment in relation to those goals and what you're doing to work towards them then I'm sure someone better educated than myself will be able to give you a more accurate and relevant response.
You may need to adjust the amount of calories you're consuming to account for your increased body weight. If you're talking primarily about gaining muscle, it's entirely normal for increases in muscle gain to slow down and it becomes harder to continue to make gains the more muscle you have.
If you can give us an idea of what your goals are, where you are at the moment in relation to those goals and what you're doing to work towards them then I'm sure someone better educated than myself will be able to give you a more accurate and relevant response.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
In my experience, the further you get from a lean, midrange BMI the harder it will be to keep the weight on. There has to be a consistent demand for force production equal to the muscle you've put on or it will be decommissioned.
Relatively easy to be 20lbs over a lean body weight. 30lbs tougher but doable, 40+ will require a lot more food and training.
Example of 1, my lean BMI is about 160. At 180 no problems. 190 I have to be very consistent. 200 it feels like I'm eating nonstop and as consequence need to keep training demands high or will kick over to pudge.
Relatively easy to be 20lbs over a lean body weight. 30lbs tougher but doable, 40+ will require a lot more food and training.
Example of 1, my lean BMI is about 160. At 180 no problems. 190 I have to be very consistent. 200 it feels like I'm eating nonstop and as consequence need to keep training demands high or will kick over to pudge.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
The General Adaptation Syndrome
This applies to gaining or losing weight, as well as training; The General Adaptation Syndrome applies universally to about everything in life.
It mean that you body learn and adapts.
Diet Calorie Adaptation
Than main issue with weight loss diets is that the body learn and adapts to the lower calorie intake; your metabolic rate slow down to accommodate for the lower calories. Once that occurs, weight loss stops.
The same occurs when gaining weight, the body learns and adapts to your higher calorie intake; your metabolic rate increased to accommodate for the higher calorie intake. Again, once adaptation occurs, you weight gain stops.
The MATADOR Weight Loss Study
Nutrition - How is losing weight through exercise different than through fasting?
How is losing weight through exercise different than through fasting?
www.strongfirst.com
Information on it is sited at the above link. The MATADOR Weight Loss Study information has been posted numerous time on this site.
This research demonstrated the Bulking and Cutting protocol used by Bodybuilder for decades optimizes fat loss/preserves muscle mass or increasing muscle mass/body weight works; when preformed correctly.
Calorie are rotated up and down every two weeks.
The same protocol of rotating calorie intake up and down applies to gaining weight as it does with losing weight; the difference is with the amount of calories consumed.
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
So the body follows the same logic of adaptation as when it comes to strength training.
Would you do a two week block of identical strength training on every day?
With strength training waviness and variety is recommended. Why not do so with dieting? Have a day of heavy, medium, light eating? Different macros for different days? Etc.
Why rotate the calories every two weeks instead of day to day, meal to meal?
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
The General Adaptation Syndrome
This is from Hans Selye, M.D, PhD. (the “Father of Stress”).
Essentially, as Selye determined, when we are presented with some new type of stress; we adapted to it or die.
An example is...
Covid 19
As with all viruses, it is adapting (changing) and learning to adapt to stay alive.
Periodization Strength Training
The foundation of Periodization Strength Training cyclical program is based on The General Adaptation Syndrome.
As has been posted on this site before, one of the determinate factors in the length of a Training Program is...
Training Age
1) Novice Lifter; They adapt slowly. Thus, they can make gains on the same program for around 8 - 12 weeks before they need to make changes.
2) Advanced Lifter: These individual adapt quickly. Training program need to be changed approximately every 3 - 4 weeks.
Periodization Training Block
I personally perform three week blocks of a training program before revising it.
It doesn't make sense to perform the same strength training exercises every day. So, I don't nor do I support it.
Different lifts are performed on different days during the week.
Secondly, an increase of the loading in the exercise is dramatically increased in that exercise each week; progressive overloading.
Which brings us to...
Based On My Periodization Training Example
1) Waviness
I wave the load up over a three week period. I then dramatically drop the load down in the fourth week, which now becomes the first week of a new Periodization Training Cycle; waving the loading.
Since I am a Powerlifter, these exercise don't change (Squat or Bench Press), only the Waviness in the load each week does.
2) Variety
I change my Auxiliary Exercise up every three weeks.
Bench Press Auxiliary Example
I change my grip and/or the incline position of the bench up every three weeks, during a new cycle.
Varying an exercise can be as simple as going from a Wide Grip to Narrow or Medium or going from a High Incline Bench Press to a Decline Bench Press.
The key is to employ exercises that are similar in nature to the lift; involve the same muscle groups and Strength Curve.
Waviness of Diet
The MATADOR Weight Loss Diet is a "Wavy Diet". You wave it down for two weeks and then back up for two weeks.
Some individual my may find that they can Wave it down for three weeks or maybe more.
The key is the once you stop losing weight or gaining, you have adapted and need to change your diet.
Different Calorie Intake Days
The focus needs to be on decreasing or increasing your caloric intake for the week rather than having Heavy, Medium or Light Eating Days.'
If you consume more calories for a week, regardless of what you eat each day, you will gain weight.
If you consume fewer calories for a week, regardless of what you eat each day, you will lose weight.
Different Macros for Different Days
I don't see much of a point to that. If for whatever reason you prefer to do that, do it.
Two Weeks
As the research shows, it take about two week for the body to adapt.
Varying you calorie intake day to day and meal to meal only makes a difference is if you end up with a surplus calories for the week to gain weight or a deficit of calories for the week to lose weight.
The day to day and meal to meal changes amount to CrossFits WOD, Workout of the Day method.
A “WOD” throws the organism into a state of total chaos, ...
Introducing the StrongFirst “WOD” | StrongFirst
“If at first you don’t succeed, redefine success.”This caption for a New Yorker cartoon nails the “FOMO” mentality of a “workout of the day.”Then why, might you ask, is StrongFirst jumping on the bandwagon and introducing its own “WOD”?Please read on.
www.strongfirst.com
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
The General Adaptation Syndrome
This is from Hans Selye, M.D, PhD. (the “Father of Stress”).
Essentially, as Selye determined, when we are presented with some new type of stress; we adapted to it or die.
An example is...
Covid 19
As with all viruses, it is adapting (changing) and learning to adapt to stay alive.
Periodization Strength Training
The foundation of Periodization Strength Training cyclical program is based on The General Adaptation Syndrome.
As has been posted on this site before, one of the determinate factors in the length of a Training Program is...
Training Age
1) Novice Lifter; They adapt slowly. Thus, they can make gains on the same program for around 8 - 12 weeks before they need to make changes.
2) Advanced Lifter: These individual adapt quickly. Training program need to be changed approximately every 3 - 4 weeks.
Periodization Training Block
I personally perform three week blocks of a training program before revising it.
It doesn't make sense to perform the same strength training exercises every day. So, I don't nor do I support it.
Different lifts are performed on different days during the week.
Secondly, an increase of the loading in the exercise is dramatically increased in that exercise each week; progressive overloading.
Which brings us to...
Based On My Periodization Training Example
1) Waviness
I wave the load up over a three week period. I then dramatically drop the load down in the fourth week, which now becomes the first week of a new Periodization Training Cycle; waving the loading.
Since I am a Powerlifter, these exercise don't change (Squat or Bench Press), only the Waviness in the load each week does.
2) Variety
I change my Auxiliary Exercise up every three weeks.
Bench Press Auxiliary Example
I change my grip and/or the incline position of the bench up every three weeks, during a new cycle.
Varying an exercise can be as simple as going from a Wide Grip to Narrow or Medium or going from a High Incline Bench Press to a Decline Bench Press.
The key is to employ exercises that are similar in nature to the lift; involve the same muscle groups and Strength Curve.
Waviness of Diet
The MATADOR Weight Loss Diet is a "Wavy Diet". You wave it down for two weeks and then back up for two weeks.
Some individual my may find that they can Wave it down for three weeks or maybe more.
The key is the once you stop losing weight or gaining, you have adapted and need to change your diet.
Different Calorie Intake Days
The focus needs to be on decreasing or increasing your caloric intake for the week rather than having Heavy, Medium or Light Eating Days.'
If you consume more calories for a week, regardless of what you eat each day, you will gain weight.
If you consume fewer calories for a week, regardless of what you eat each day, you will lose weight.
Different Macros for Different Days
I don't see much of a point to that. If for whatever reason you prefer to do that, do it.
Two Weeks
As the research shows, it take about two week for the body to adapt.
Varying you calorie intake day to day and meal to meal only makes a difference is if you end up with a surplus calories for the week to gain weight or a deficit of calories for the week to lose weight.
The day to day and meal to meal changes amount to CrossFits WOD, Workout of the Day method.
A “WOD” throws the organism into a state of total chaos, ...
Introducing the StrongFirst “WOD” | StrongFirst
“If at first you don’t succeed, redefine success.”This caption for a New Yorker cartoon nails the “FOMO” mentality of a “workout of the day.”Then why, might you ask, is StrongFirst jumping on the bandwagon and introducing its own “WOD”?Please read on.www.strongfirst.com
I'm not sure you completely understood my question.
I'll make a rough comparison, just to illustrate my point. Consider macros as different aspects of strength; protein as absolute strength, carbs as power, fat as endurance. In a microcycle we have separate days or sessions for different aspects of strength training. However, in the example of waving the diet load every two weeks, there is no waviness inside the two week period, even if there is with strength training. Also, despite the actual aspects being different from day to day, the total training load varies with strength training, like it could with total calories ingested.
Of course, I'm not suggesting to eat only carbs one day and only fat one and so on... I'm just pointing out that we could adjust the ratios more often than two weeks, like we have different ratios in training day to day.
Why do you think day to day or meal to meal changes amount to WODs? They could be programmed. If anything, we could, for example, target the most carbs around evenings or around the most strenuous training sessions. And like some say hypertrophy is dependent on the total volume per muscle group in a microcycle, the weight loss or weight gain is dependent on the total CICO of a microcycle, even if in both cases, the daily dose would vary.
I understand the study had two week waves. Have there been any studies with more waviness in the diet?
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
I can't speak to weight loss, but putting on over 20lbs in a year definitely made me realize a few things. For weight loss all I can recommend is drop calories by about 200/day, keep protein intake high, and continue to train. I've never had trouble losing weigh if my discipline is strong. When my kids were born I dropped about 25lbs in less than a year.
- the expert's advice about breaking your protein into spikes is spot on.
- gaining significant lean weight requires a metabolic state the body cannot maintain indefinitely and is resistant to entering at all. Longest I was able to string it out was three weeks at a whack, two worked better. This just being the digestive aspect, combine that with progressive resistance training so the demand for more muscle bulk is high as well, and you're riding the edge of a bunch of factors.
- there is a lag between creating the conditions to gain lean mass and it actually happening. When you hit a rhythm, it takes a day or two to "feel" like anything is happening. If you aren't using a multi week wave, it can take a lot longer, a week or more. Adding calories out of the blue initially increases only endurance and strength, it takes a few before more mass is added.
- from my POV, timing my biggest carb load to be right after training was the only timing dependent eating habit aside from the protein spikes. Protein is almost a separate consideration and there is (IMHO) some value in reducing protein consumption between spikes to get the best result when you do spike it. Keeping carbs high improves anabolism, reducing fat ingestion increases how many days you can overfeed before your belt gets tight. Too little fat inhibits anabolism, but it is really tough to get below 20% daily macros anyway. Intentional tweaks to fat/carb ingestion or timing on a daily scale are of dubious utility. Sort of like timing your creatine.
- the expert's advice about breaking your protein into spikes is spot on.
- gaining significant lean weight requires a metabolic state the body cannot maintain indefinitely and is resistant to entering at all. Longest I was able to string it out was three weeks at a whack, two worked better. This just being the digestive aspect, combine that with progressive resistance training so the demand for more muscle bulk is high as well, and you're riding the edge of a bunch of factors.
- there is a lag between creating the conditions to gain lean mass and it actually happening. When you hit a rhythm, it takes a day or two to "feel" like anything is happening. If you aren't using a multi week wave, it can take a lot longer, a week or more. Adding calories out of the blue initially increases only endurance and strength, it takes a few before more mass is added.
- from my POV, timing my biggest carb load to be right after training was the only timing dependent eating habit aside from the protein spikes. Protein is almost a separate consideration and there is (IMHO) some value in reducing protein consumption between spikes to get the best result when you do spike it. Keeping carbs high improves anabolism, reducing fat ingestion increases how many days you can overfeed before your belt gets tight. Too little fat inhibits anabolism, but it is really tough to get below 20% daily macros anyway. Intentional tweaks to fat/carb ingestion or timing on a daily scale are of dubious utility. Sort of like timing your creatine.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Waviness
The more complicated you make something the harder it is to follow.
After thinking about the complexity of varying and waving macros and calories each meal and day, I had take to aspirin and lay down.
Chaos
Because, the WOD is chaos training, The only thing consistent is the Inconsistency.
The MATADOR Research
It determined that it takes approximately two weeks before adaptation occurs and progress stops.
Pavel noted much the same in one of his articles; progress appear to stagnate in two weeks.
With said, much of the adaptive process has to do with...
Training Age
Less experience lifter adapted slowly.
More advance lifter adapt quickly.
That appear to be true with diet changes, a well.
Waviness Diet Research
There's no research that I have seen on the amount of "Waviness" that you have proposed.
Perform your own Case Study and then based your experience, post it.
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