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Kettlebell Is simple and sinister all you need?

Bradley Duggan

Level 2 Valued Member
Is simple and sinister all you need to keep you strong for the rest of your life.
Even if you didn't particularly like working out. But practiced simple and and sinister daily, would that be enough to keep you strong and healthy.

How does Pavel tsatsouline train now that's he's an older age? Anyone know?

Any answers welcome.
 

Wifi

Level 1 Valued Member
I've been practicing S&S for almost a year now. I am now using the 32kg, while implementing the 40kg in a couple of sets. I find I am stronger and more conditioned than most people I encounter on a day-to-day basis, and am strong enough to do most things I have to do. However, I still find myself lacking in some situations, usually when it comes to running a lot, or climbing up and over things playing with kids.

All that said, my conclusion would be that S&S is plenty to build the critical stuff, and maintain most things at an acceptable level. But I do think that if you want to do something well, you will eventually have to do that. After doing whatever that is, S&S seems to be a good way to maintain a variety of physical attributes in a minimalist fashion.
 

Lotto

Level 5 Valued Member
Depends on how long the rest of your life is. 18 years old, I think it would be too monastic to do for years. Starting in your sixties, entirely feasible it could be all you need. Ultimately though when targets are reached, it is human nature to seek another challenge. I spent over a year on just a diet of S&S. I enjoyed it but came away after achieving timed simple. I wanted to increase strength with other modalities. Currently on BW with a lot of gains identified to be made.
 

jozko

Level 5 Valued Member
It's rather 80/20 approach. I don't think it gives you all you need, but it has big returns with minimal investment. And nobody ever said it's all you need - it just provides a base for all you need. I personally missed upper body pull and calf & ankle activation. I had decent conditioning level from it alone, but when I started with hill sprinting, I was disappointed. My legs were just clumsy. So good it leaves you with plenty of energy in your tank, so you can do other stuff as well.
 

Aj Bhardwaj

Level 1 Valued Member
I think this is along the lines of a similar question that has sprung up before - "Perfect Program" or "Total complementary program".

I love SnS. I do it everyone morning as a recharge with a light bell. Is it all you need? Simple but boring answer - Depends on your goals.

The fun answer is more of an open question - What would you do, if you only 30 minutes per day, for the rest of your life? If you had been forced to make a choice.

For me - PTTP Alternating with SnS.
 
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watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
If you could find 30 minutes to S+S you could find those same 30 minutes to
Snatch
C+J
Do double bell work
Complexes
Sandbag lifting
Callisthenics
My 2 cents.

Exactly.

For the same time commitment, you could get so much more by rotating to new methodologies from time to time.

Everything has diminishing returns, and doing only S&S forever would be needlessly constraining oneself.
 

acutaiar12

Level 6 Valued Member
I’m in the same boat as @Wifi . I’ve been on S&S for over a year now, currently working on owning Timeless Solid and Timed Simple.

I agree with what @jozko said about the proverbial 80/20. I love my swings and get ups, and I’m in the best shape of my life. But, I also do barefoot hill sprints once or twice a week, StrongFirst Resilient drills twice a week, near daily apnea training, a ton of stretching, and a lot of walking.

So, S&S will turn you into a machine if you stay patient and consistent, but it’s not a magic program that will make you amazing at every physical attribute.
 

Ege

Level 5 Valued Member
With all the respect to people who might want to learn what Pavel does himself, I don’t want to learn :) He has so much exercise history under his belt that; learning what he personally does, will be misleading for me.

When it comes to evaluating S&S. It is a fantastic program for a broad number of audience.

For an experienced athlete S&S might mean a great GPP or a great strength program without taking much from his/her main sports/interest, for a novice beginner it might mean all he/she needs.

Let’s be realistic and honest. S&S alone, will provide more exercise than American Health’s organizations weekly recommendation to be healthy in all modalities for general population.

S&S is no joke. It is first of all a great screening tool on its own. It revealed my mobility and cardio weaknesses that were not revealed by some other programs. Second, It covers a lot of modalities and in a very good way, relative to most other programs and does that with a minimalistic approach giving practitioner a relief.

I was shopping around as well and hesitant to go w S&S which on surface seemed very minimal. I have tried a few sessions with outmost worst form ( not recommended at all, I am lucky that I did not hurt myself badly) without the preparation work. Then
I have imagined myself, reaching goal Simple. That version of me, had more cardio capability, more mobility and more strength than who I am now, the answer was given.

Best;

Ege
 

Ege

Level 5 Valued Member
I’m in the same boat as @Wifi . I’ve been on S&S for over a year now, currently working on owning Timeless Solid and Timed Simple.

I agree with what @jozko said about the proverbial 80/20. I love my swings and get ups, and I’m in the best shape of my life. But, I also do barefoot hill sprints once or twice a week, StrongFirst Resilient drills twice a week, near daily apnea training, a ton of stretching, and a lot of walking.

So, S&S will turn you into a machine if you stay patient and consistent, but it’s not a magic program that will make you amazing at every physical attribute.
Your training logs are great examples of all around training. I respect your consistency and work capacity.
 

Halfakneecap

Level 5 Valued Member
If you just did S&S, but kept adding weight and reducing rest periods on swings, and kept adding weight to TGU ( to 1/2
Body weight or more ), you’d be pretty strong and in great shape.

The best thing about S&S is, it gets you strong enough and conditioned enough to move into things like clean and press, snatch etc. I don’t do it by the book anymore ( I do swings and getups once a week as assistance for Strong! ), but I think it’s great
 

TedM

Level 5 Valued Member
My 2cents as a regular guy who was in pretty decent shape (as far as the world outside this forum defines that....): S&S isn't meant to be the *sole set* of activities forever. But I think it could be part of one's regular toolbox forever.

Not meaning to be pedantic, but on page 115 of the book: "Once you own Simple, it will be easy to maintain.....with two talk-test regulated S&S sessions a week..."

So I think staying focused on the program (see also page 88 "Why people fail on S&S") until you hit your goals and then evaluating your goals/weaknesses - is the way to go. (I'm aiming for that...)
 

renegadenate

Level 6 Valued Member
If you could find 30 minutes to S+S you could find those same 30 minutes to
Snatch
C+J
Do double bell work
Complexes
Sandbag lifting
Callisthenics
My 2 cents.
Bingo!

I don't get why people think that doing only S&S or ROP or Q&D or PTP or some other two-lifts-only program is enough or will get them to their goals.

Can you make amazing progress on those programs? Yes!

Will they give you everything you really want (strength, hypertrophy, conditioning, etc.). No.

Most people (no matter what they say) want to look good. And a simple two-exercise program will not fully accomplish that.

Yes, there are many WTHEs from these programs (I've experienced them many times over). But I can guarantee you that if you want to truly get stronger, build muscle, improve your conditioning, be good at a variety of things, and look good, then you will need more than S&S (or any other two-exercise program).

Don't get me wrong. I love S&S, ROP, and Q&D, and I have had awesome results using them. But I've used them IN ADDITION to other exercises/programs to make far better progress in ALL of the aforementioned categories.

If someone is only going to focus on S&S (or one of the other programs), it should be for a short period of time (up to 12 weeks). Otherwise, you should absolutely add other exercises to "fill the gaps" or provide you with more benefits.

Since I started my fitness business in 2009, all of our sessions were 20 minutes (30 minutes tops) and only 3x/week. Me and my coaching clients made amazing progress in strength, hypertrophy, conditioning, looking good, health, body composition, etc. And we used a variety of exercises. Sure, there were times when we implemented S&S or ROP, but they were for shorter periods of time (4-8 weeks) and in addition to other stuff.

Even when you're short on time (<30 minutes), you can do far more than just S&S and get everything you desire. And there's no reason why you can't do S&S (or Q&D) 2x/week and then do other stuff 1-3x/week. It just makes far more sense to do so.
 

Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
I don't get why people think that doing only S&S or ROP or Q&D or PTP or some other two-lifts-only program is enough or will get them to their goals.
I do.

when I partake in these programs, it isn't an indulgence.​
when I select and run a cycle, it isn't for fun.​
when I choose a goal to chase, it isn't that important to be precise or to follow through to the end; having one at all is much more important.​

for myself, I'm not at the point of ferreting out which is best for me - I just try to make them fit in my schedule.
my fitness equipment costs and the time investment is at the back of the line in my list of things to do today.
there's no power rack on the horizon. no double bells. no mace, club or dumbell, bands, or other accessories than are absolutely necessary.

for me:
I am not paying for something I like, or want.
I am paying a tax to reality against slovenliness, and eventual morbidity and decrepitude at ages 70 80, or beyond.
for better or worse, I mean to minimize those payments in terms of time and money.

of course, this is all with respect to one's fitness goals.
My goal is:
I wanna be able to move my own furniture till the day I die.
differently wording the same idea:
I wanna be a little stronger every year.

one of the appeals of minimalist two-lift programs for me is that they are probably as small as they can be.
I puzzle over this idea of minimum doses. minimum thresholds. minimum bars to entry.

E.g. Mark Rippetoe writes: if you don't have time for warm-up sets then you don't have time to lift.
if that were true - I never would have started. and I'd be all the worse for it.

for some people - whatever the reason, whatever the goal - minimization and optimization are one and the same.
 

renegadenate

Level 6 Valued Member
I do.
when I partake in these programs, it isn't an indulgence.​
when I select and run a cycle, it isn't for fun.​
when I choose a goal to chase, it isn't that important to be precise or to follow through to the end; having one at all is much more important.​

for myself, I'm not at the point of ferreting out which is best for me - I just try to make them fit in my schedule.
my fitness equipment costs and the time investment is at the back of the line in my list of things to do today.
there's no power rack on the horizon. no double bells. no mace, club or dumbell, bands, or other accessories than are absolutely necessary.

for me:
I am not paying for something I like, or want.
I am paying a tax to reality against slovenliness, and eventual morbidity and decrepitude at ages 70 80, or beyond.
for better or worse, I mean to minimize those payments in terms of time and money.

of course, this is all with respect to one's fitness goals.
My goal is:
I wanna be able to move my own furniture till the day I die.
differently wording the same idea:
I wanna be a little stronger every year.

one of the appeals of minimalist two-lift programs for me is that they are probably as small as they can be.
I puzzle over this idea of minimum doses. minimum thresholds. minimum bars to entry.

E.g. Mark Rippetoe writes: if you don't have time for warm-up sets then you don't have time to lift.
if that were true - I never would have started. and I'd be all the worse for it.

for some people - whatever the reason, whatever the goal - minimization and optimization are one and the same.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

Have you taken various measurements (health markers, strength, cardio, etc.) that you can track? Have they improved since you started S&S? I would include things like pushups, pull-ups, run times, etc.
 

Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

Have you taken various measurements (health markers, strength, cardio, etc.) that you can track? Have they improved since you started S&S? I would include things like pushups, pull-ups, run times, etc.
I do have a log here in case you're curious.
it actually started out cuz I was trying to fit in working out into a minute or so at a time.
my "busy-dad" protocol

my measurements of improvement are much more casual than others.
I do have some things that I have taken note of over the long haul
  • It's easier to get up and down stairs in my house.
  • I can carry the kids in my arms longer when we're out and about.
  • I've progressed to heavier bells over time, in the snatch press and swing; from month to month.
  • Max deadlift increased from 315lbs to 365lbs
  • Can now swing the 40kg bell for sets of 10 and it feels like the 32kg used to.
  • glutes shoulders and thighs have obviously visibly increased in size
  • gained about 20 lbs without appreciable change in the waistline which has been more or less static since I started.
side note as to asking about programs:
I was more quizzical about program selection till I took the strong endurance seminar.​
now I feel informed enough to just do a program for a cycle.​
but, now that I'm at this place of confidence in selecting programs, and planning for the next cycle, I have acquired a propensity to answer others who are still trying to sus things out with the following:​
just do it. and you'll probably find the answers to your questions faster than discussing it here without trying it out.
I try to fight that urge - and I try to remember that - this seemed like an unhelpful response back when I was busier with inquiring and gathering information; for my own purposes.​
 
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