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Kettlebell Is simple and sinister all you need?

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Overuse injuries aren't from using some aspect of movement a lot. They are from doing more than what the body is (or specifically in most cases, more than tissues are) prepared to do. With appropriate progression, "overuse" doesn't need to be a thing that ever happens, even in extreme cases like ultramarathoners, Tour de France cyclists, world record holders of many feats, and many others.

Hi Anna;

When it comes to injuries, I have a question. I have low over head mobility.

Do you see in general a danger of injury from presses and or TGUs for people w low mobility?

Will u consider TgUs as a means of increasing mobility? Or should I first totally iron my over head mobility?

When I raise my arms perpendicular, I can not lock my left shoulder to its socket, if I a lock it and engage my lats I am down may be 20 degrees from 90.
 
Overuse injuries aren't from using some aspect of movement a lot. They are from doing more than what the body is (or specifically in most cases, more than tissues are) prepared to do. With appropriate progression, "overuse" doesn't need to be a thing that ever happens, even in extreme cases like ultramarathoners, Tour de France cyclists, world record holders of many feats, and many others.
Maybe the term improper or wrong use injuries is more appropriate…
 
Hi Anna;

When it comes to injuries, I have a question. I have low over head mobility.

Do you see in general a danger of injury from presses and or TGUs for people w low mobility?

Will u consider TgUs as a means of increasing mobility? Or should I first totally iron my over head mobility?

When I raise my arms perpendicular, I can not lock my left shoulder to its socket, if I a lock it and engage my lats I am down may be 20 degrees from 90.

"Danger" might be too strong a word... if you can do it without problems, you can do it... and sometimes a person might see improvement by doing it (Do YOU find that doing TGUs has increased your mobility?)... but yes if you're continuing to do a movement with some compromise from how it is optimally done, it is possible that you'd be overloading some tissues that might eventually cause you more of a problem. So, I'd encourage you to work on improving your overhead mobility, unless there is some prior injury or some reason you know of that it's just not possible for you.

If S&S is your current program, I would say spend a little extra time on halos, and also, add some kettlebell arm bars. The arm bar can benefit both the top shoulder AND the bottom shoulder, if you pay attention to the details. "Fight for millimeters!" as they say in Flexible Steel. Do the prep work in your warm-up to earn those extra millimeters in your range of motion. Then when you are able load the new ROM (with a good press or TGU overhead with slightly better position), your body can learn that it's OK to go there, and it will be yours.
 
@Ege
I concur with Anna. I would also suggest understanding what the overhead mobility issue stems from. Perhaps working with a physiotherapist or a FMS practitioner. After that maybe working with an SFG on TGU technique might be beneficial as well…
 
"Danger" might be too strong a word... if you can do it without problems, you can do it... and sometimes a person might see improvement by doing it (Do YOU find that doing TGUs has increased your mobility?)... but yes if you're continuing to do a movement with some compromise from how it is optimally done, it is possible that you'd be overloading some tissues that might eventually cause you more of a problem. So, I'd encourage you to work on improving your overhead mobility, unless there is some prior injury or some reason you know of that it's just not possible for you.

If S&S is your current program, I would say spend a little extra time on halos, and also, add some kettlebell arm bars. The arm bar can benefit both the top shoulder AND the bottom shoulder, if you pay attention to the details. "Fight for millimeters!" as they say in Flexible Steel. Do the prep work in your warm-up to earn those extra millimeters in your range of motion. Then when you are able load the new ROM (with a good press or TGU overhead with slightly better position), your body can learn that it's OK to go there, and it will be yours.

Thanks a lot great advice as usual.
Although I do halos and arm bars daily, I am using the only KB I have, which 16 kg. Indeed on the heavier side for me to do those warm up/accessory moves. To fight for the millimeters, I could buy a lighter KB…
 
@Ege
I concur with Anna. I would also suggest understanding what the overhead mobility issue stems from. Perhaps working with a physiotherapist or a FMS practitioner. After that maybe working with an SFG on TGU technique might be beneficial as well…

Thanks I have taken one online session from a great coach, and I will have one more in future.

Currently I don’t have chance to take face to face coaching on either.

And this generous forum so far acts as a coach for me. I know not all advice here might be correct, or can fit to everyone etc. but from very experienced people to new beginners, everyone is trying to help. Much better than being alone.
 
Thanks a lot great advice as usual.
Although I do halos and arm bars daily, I am using the only KB I have, which 16 kg. Indeed on the heavier side for me to do those warm up/accessory moves. To fight for the millimeters, I could buy a lighter KB…
Yes, a lighter KB, or something else -- these can be done with other weights (plate, dumbbell, even a resistance band) if you're cautious and creative.

Another important concept as you mentioned in this other thread is baseline. Checking in with your movement before and after, and as you progress over time, is the way to know if what you're doing is effective.
 
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I've been practicing S&S for almost a year now. I am now using the 32kg, while implementing the 40kg in a couple of sets. I find I am stronger and more conditioned than most people I encounter on a day-to-day basis, and am strong enough to do most things I have to do. However, I still find myself lacking in some situations, usually when it comes to running a lot, or climbing up and over things playing with kids.
I observed something similar to this when I got to timeless Simple. Lots of daily activities that would have been challenging were not as challenging.
  • Carrying our kayaks around and hanging them back on the garage wall, moving heavy objects, furniture.
  • I helped a guy move his couch down to his basement. He was absolutely gassed, huffing and puffing, and I was holding the couch in position waiting for him to catch his breath.
  • When someone would try to sweep my leg in karate, there was no moving it if my foot was planted.

Timed Simple… not much difference except some mental fortitude and grit.
 
Do you see in general a danger of injury from presses and or TGUs for people w low mobility?

Will u consider TgUs as a means of increasing mobility? Or should I first totally iron my over head mobility?

When I raise my arms perpendicular, I can not lock my left shoulder to its socket, if I a lock it and engage my lats I am down may be 20 degrees from 90.

One of the basic premises of most movement screening disciplines is:

You don't want to heavily load a dysfunctional movement.
 
This is great marketing. It has proven itself in this thread.

But you could say this about many other two-exercise programs or a number of programs that have three or more exercises that can be done with one Kettlebell (and bodyweight) with minimal time commitment.

There is no reason to stay on S&S indefinitely (for the many reasons I've already stated).

Someone would be far better off rotating S&S with other programs (PTTP. Q&D, A+A) and adding a few other exercises like pull-ups (or whatever else they may need to fill the gaps).
Speaking respectfully here, I don't think it's important that other programs can accomplish the same thing as long as this one does so. The issue isn't which one to choose but rather that the one you do choose fits the bill. As long as it does then no need to consider the effectiveness of others.

I actually think that's what raises the question. It's like a kid in a candy store who only has money for two items. Which one does he choose and will the ones he chooses satisfy him to the point that he forgets about the others?

I know this is the challenge that I have. I start to think what about just adding this exercise for this reason, and then what about this other exercise as well, and then it's well maybe if I cut back the program to 3 days and do these other lifts in these days. Before I know it I have over complicated it.

This is my own motivation for wanting to know if a single simple program like S&S can be all I need. I want to keep it simple and in order to do that I need to feel confident I don't really need anything else. If I feel I need something else then I quickly want to slip yet another exercise in and it just snowballs from there.

I guess I ha e a hard time with the KISS principle.
 
It's like a kid in a candy store who only has money for two items
This strikes me as a deeply applicable analogy.
I want to keep it simple and in order to do that I need to feel confident I don't really need anything else
I will say swings and getups are a great way to keep things regular. I did get to touch on a smaller way to do those movements from Geoff Neupert. the Better than Nothing program.

Workout A: Set a timer for 10 minutes, and do as many swings as you can.
Workout B: Set a timer for 10 minutes, and do as many getups as you can.

alternate workouts A & B, every day.
maybe if I cut back the program to 3 days
I'm not your age, but I was going through a tough time getting ready to sell my home and move across the country and manage 3 young kids on less sleep than I should've had.

I did have an experience with snatching for several months during this time.
I ran Q&D 2x week for several months during this very tough time.
after the dust settled and I took a month off due to covid and taking care of other things after moving, I found a few things of note.

My weight and visible composition didn't change too much one way or the other.
My deadlift strength was about the same.
My Kettlebell and barbell practice could basically resume.

This was just 2 sessions of 40 or 60 snatches with a very submaximal bell (24kg) per week.
I can't help but imagine that 200 more sternly weighted swings and 20 getups per week would have similar if not better results.
And, the getup finds a lot more favor with me for my lower back health and stability.
 
I do.

when I partake in these programs, it isn't an indulgence.​
when I select and run a cycle, it isn't for fun.​
when I choose a goal to chase, it isn't that important to be precise or to follow through to the end; having one at all is much more important.​

for myself, I'm not at the point of ferreting out which is best for me - I just try to make them fit in my schedule.
my fitness equipment costs and the time investment is at the back of the line in my list of things to do today.
there's no power rack on the horizon. no double bells. no mace, club or dumbell, bands, or other accessories than are absolutely necessary.

for me:
I am not paying for something I like, or want.
I am paying a tax to reality against slovenliness, and eventual morbidity and decrepitude at ages 70 80, or beyond.
for better or worse, I mean to minimize those payments in terms of time and money.

of course, this is all with respect to one's fitness goals.
My goal is:
I wanna be able to move my own furniture till the day I die.
differently wording the same idea:
I wanna be a little stronger every year.

one of the appeals of minimalist two-lift programs for me is that they are probably as small as they can be.
I puzzle over this idea of minimum doses. minimum thresholds. minimum bars to entry.

E.g. Mark Rippetoe writes: if you don't have time for warm-up sets then you don't have time to lift.
if that were true - I never would have started. and I'd be all the worse for it.

for some people - whatever the reason, whatever the goal - minimization and optimization are one and the same.
This is my favorite post ever!
 
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