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Kettlebell Is This Too Much? S&S and Bodywieght

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Jason Christopher

Jason Christopher

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Hello All,

I am trying to do S&S 6 days a week with the 35lb Kettlebell, and some times I do a few reps with the 50lb to try to increase strength. (BW=130lb male, mid twenties, 13%BF)

I have also been trying to work up to the one arm push ups by doing about 4-6 sets every other day; in addition I am working on one legged squats by doing 3 sets of 3 (using a door frame to help) every other day, but I am starting to realize that my legs are always tired. Not tired enough to really prevent me from doing S&S...just afraid I might be asking too much of my body and over training?. Especially when I do the 5 Turkish getups on the same day as my one arm push ups (using the other arm for support, but not pushing).

I have really seen a body composition change from working on the one arm push ups... I don't want to give those up, but I also want the general preparedness and HIIT from S&S.

So my schedule looks like this (granted, there are a 1 or 2 days every week I skip the full S&S because I feel to beat.)

Monday: S&S, 1 arm push ups, and bicep curls
Tuesday: S&S and 1 leg squats
Wednesday: 1 arm push ups and bicep curls
Thursday: S&S and 1 leg squats
Friday: S&S, 1 arm push ups, and bicep curls
Saturday: S&S and 1 leg squats
Sunday: 1 arm push ups, and bicep curls

My goal, to add muscle mass and strength as soon as possible, while having the general preparedness that S&S provides, I have been doing this for about a month and a half now, and it seems to be working, but before I was not doing all of the sets for swings and getups that S&S calls for, now I am slowly trying to add reps.

What do my strong friends think about this?
 
Way too much curls. You only need to do them twice a week.
I'd say do S&S 4-5x/week and do your PUs and pistols GTG style ala Naked Warrior. Add curls e.g. on monday+thursday.

Eat!
How tall are you? @130lbs your problem seems to be getting enough calories to grow.
 
I am 5' 4"... before I started this routine about 1.5 months ago I was maybe about 5-7lbs lighter. The most I have ever weighed is 136lbs, that was when I was doing Starting Strength for 3 months, and then life got in the way. My numbers (best) then where:

Squat: 175lbs 3(sets)x5(reps)
Deadlift: 275lbs 1x5
Bench: 160lbs 3x5
OHP: 85lbs 3x5
Pull ups: 45lbs 3x5

If we are honest, by looking at my numbers I think we can still say I was in the "novice" stage considering my age and BW.
Kettlebelephant said:
Way too much curls. You only need to do them twice a week.
I'd say do S&S 4-5x/week and do your PUs and pistols GTG style ala Naked Warrior. Add curls e.g. on monday+thursday.

Eat!
How tall are you? @130lbs your problem seems to be getting enough calories to grow.
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Kettlebelephant, I will reduce the curls, but I don't feel like they are really interfering that much, the getups, swings, and push ups don't rely that heavily on the biceps? I started out doing grease the grove style, but then I switched to normal sets because my understanding is that GTG increases neurological muscle efficiency and only helps strength on that specific movement... ? I would prefer muscle mass that carries over to other movements.

Kettlebelephant, let me also add that a few weeks ago I went to my doctor who has one of really fancy scales that determines BMI, BF and ect... My legs had 93% of the average muscle for my age, sex and height... so do to genetics I do have chicken legs (arms were 105%), and that might explain some of the low BW.
 
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I would also suggest pull ups, along with chin ups to focus on the biceps. Additionally, it will help your back grow, along with the kettlebell s&s
 
Jason Christopher said:
... I also want the general preparedness and HIIT from S&S.
Click to expand...

You refer to S&S as HIIT. Can you explain what you mean by this?

Jason Christopher said:
I have been doing this for about a month and a half now, and it seems to be working, but before I was not doing all of the sets for swings and getups that S&S calls for, now I am slowly trying to add reps.
Click to expand...

You mention not doing all the prescribed sets and slowly trying to add reps. Can you describe your S&S practice? What are you actually doing in terms of sets and reps? How long is it taking you to complete the swings? What is your perceived level of effort? How are you deciding when to begin each set?
 
When you are doing 1 arm pushups constantly and doing weighted pullups, your arms will definitely improve...

Another thing to consider.. Have you thought of adding 10 lbs of muscle?
 
the S&S standard warm up is hip bridges, goblet squats and halos. I would suggest just adding to the standard warm up by including some push ups, pull ups (instead of bicep curls), and pistol squat practice.

potential warm up
3 rounds of 5 reps each:
goblet squats
hip bridges
halos
oa push practice
pull ups or chin ups
pistol squat practice


then do your regular S&S workout
maybe try this out 4-5 days a week and see if it works out for you
 
One exercise I like for biceps is the one arm assisted pullup. One hand on the bar and the other gripping the pulling wrist. Then switch. I have done these ladder style ie: 1 rep left, 1 rep right...2 reps left, 2 reps right, etc. I think it's a bigger bang for the buck.
 
But he's doing S&S. I don't now about you, but the 1H-swings tax my grip enough so I wouldn't want to add pullup variations that work your grip even more than regular pullups.
Swings and proper TGUs work your lats and grip.
Curls are a nice addition if you want to add some vanity arm stuff because they only work your biceps. For example take concentration curls, no legs, no back, no stabilisation whatsoever involved.
Usually I'd advise someone like him to go for compound lifts and eat, but look at his size and strength. He's 5'4, so he'll never be a 200-225lbs guy unless he's using some serious roids. He's able to do ~1.5xBW squats, ~1.25xBW bench, ~2.25xBW deadlift all for multiple reps and sets.
I'm not saying that he wouldn't benefit from pullups, but if he wants to do S&S but likes a little bit more shape in his arms, curls are all he needs. Just give them time to recover and grow, hence not doing them almost daily like he did before.
 
Hello,

Why doing all these curls ?

If I were you, I'd have a training schedule like:
Monday: S&S
Tuesday: Naked Warrior
Wednesday: S&S
Thursday: Naked Warrior
Friday: S&S
Saturday: Naked Warrior
Sunday: Rest

It is based on few reps (excepted swings) but physically demanding.

Kind regards

Pet'
 
Quoting direct from S&S from the goblet squat instructions ....

Do a few curls without moving the elbows—seriously. It is a form of prying: the moving kettlebell shifts the center of gravity back and forth. Jack Reape, an American record holder in the bench press, was caught doing this at a gym. Admiring Jack’s pipes, the kid asked if this was his favorite biceps exercise. Deadpan, Jack replied, “Favorite and only.”
 
All, I truly appreciate all of your replies.

DavThew said:
To quote an old gym buddy of mine "triceps fill t-shirts"
Click to expand...
Then I take it the one arm push ups and TGUs are putting me on the right track!

Steve W, one can certainly not call S&S cardio, so I thought HIIT was the best word in to describe it in my vocabulary. In regards to your other questions, I am currently trying to work up to the 5 sets off 10 swings per each arm, therefore I do a few sets of one arm swings with the 35lb (5reps) a few sets (10reps) of two handed swings with the 35 and the 50 kettlebell, all in all I would say it takes me about 4-5mins to do a total of 60-70 swings, I walk for active rest. It is difficult, hence I am not able to do all 100 swings yet, same with the getups, I can maybe only do 3 per each arm... still building up strength.

Mark Limbaga said:
When you are doing 1 arm pushups constantly and doing weighted pullups, your arms will definitely improve...

Another thing to consider.. Have you thought of adding 10 lbs of muscle?
Click to expand...
Mark, another 10lbs of muscle, that is the dream! I am guessing I will probably be there when I can do S&S with the 32kg. Weighted pullups, I love those, especially going heavy where I can only do 3-5reps, but I want to master what I am doing currently before I add another compound lift. But yes I plan to in a few months.

Andrew, my muscles don't have the endurance yet to do pushups and get ups in the same workout, the same goes for the pistol squats and swings.

Ali- I am trying to build my biceps through progressive overload, the problem with this is I can only do a few curls with the 35lb kettlebell, and none with the 50... so hence the barbell.
 
Jason, S&S IS cardio, of a sort. It is intended to be done as alactic effort with aerobic recovery (A+A for short). This refers to the dominant energy systems you are trying to exploit. A lot has been written about this here on the forum and in a number of articles on the StrongFirst site, so I'm not going to explain the theory in much more detail.

In practice, the key making it work is to keep your heartrate and breathing at a LOW enough intensity to maximize your use of the aerobic energy system for recovery between sets (which is why your reference to HIIT was a red flag to me). The primary means to do this is allowing plenty of recovery time between sets (plus choosing an appropriate bell and reducing the number of reps per set if necessary).

People commonly use various markers to gauge recovery between sets, such as the Maffetone heartrate guideline of 180-age as an upper limit, being able to maintain nasal breathing between sets, and/or the "talk test" (being able to talk comfortably). Regardless of how you assess it, the general idea is to keep your effort easy (each rep should be maximum power, but the overall effort should be easy).

If you are not able to complete 10 sets, feeling beat, and not recovering well from day to day, these are all signs that you are working at too high an intensity.

I would recommend sticking with the 35lb bell and strictly following the progression in the book. Start with 5 sets of 10 two-hand swings. Take a generous amount of time to recover between sets. If 5 sets takes you 10 minutes, don't worry about it. When you feel fully recovered from day to day, increase to 7-8 sets, and eventually to 10. Don't worry about compressing your total time; worry about recovering enough and keeping the intensity low. A heartrate monitor is not necessarily the last word on proper recovery time, but it can give you an objective measure to go by and help you get a better understanding of your effort level and how your body recovers.

You can mix in one-hand swings as you are able. If you can't comfortably do a full set of 10 with one arm, then do hand-to-hand swings or 5L/5R in one set.
 
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