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Other/Mixed Isochain and Q&D

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

Phillipsta3

Level 3 Valued Member
I have recently purchased an Isochain. I am looking for any experience people have had with combining KB work with the Isochain. I don’t want to overdue it at first but looking to make the isometric work my strength work while using the KBs for conditioning/power.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
If you can narrow it down to what exercises you plan on doing with the isochain, you should be able to whip up quite a few options/variations.

Also depends on what specifically you want to accomplish - you can easily combine the two in the same session.
 

Kenny Croxdale

Level 7 Valued Member
Isochain


It $499.00!

North Coast Miller has a DYI (Do It Yourself) on the one that he made.

I am not sure what it cost him. However, it was a lot less than $499.

As Watch nerd stated. It just a chain, handle and plate to stand on.

1669550386002.png

The $499 price is absurd.
 
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BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
Isochain


It $499.00!

North Coast Miller has a DYI (Do It Yourself) on the one that he made.

I am not sure what it cost him. However, it was a lot less than $499.

As Watch nerd stated. It just a chain, handle and plate to stand on.

View attachment 19830

The $499 price is absurd.
The handle, which is basically just a scale built into a bar, can be bought separate. It used to be like $180, but looks like they jacked that price up too, now $250:


Still saves a bunch of money and all you need to do is provide a platform and rope/chain.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Several ways to combine these tools. The easiest is to do a regimen of whole body overcoming isometrics day one, KB circuit of your choice on day two, aerobics day three.

Another option is to combine them. Do an 8-15 second hold followed immediately by a dozen snatches or swings - something whole body with a rapid movement element. Take a rest and repeat.

A third is to combine an isometric hold with a KB or bodyweight exercise. So an 8-15 second hold followed by a short rest and a set of a conventional exercise with about 50% repmax. Two or three sets per.

Ideally you simply use the iso as the high tension component and the KBs provide some metabolic stress. These can be combined on the same day or on an adjacent day.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
The problem with using one (or two) with the way I apply my isometrics, I’d need to do most of my holds on a crate or run pulleys to the floor and up to the ceiling, with the scale anchored there. A lot of my pulls are set up with only a few inches between the floor and the strap ends.

I could redo the entire set-up and make this work, but am still very dubious of the benefit. If I’m pulling/pushing as hard as I can, and testing against traditional lifts from time to time, what is the scale hoing to tell me? Only if using sub-max %s will it come in handy, and I don’t train that way.
 

GreenSoup

Level 6 Valued Member
I am surprised the Isochain is dismissed so often. To me it seems pretty cool. It is a crane scale with a computer that can beep when you reach peak weight and show the readout or be programmed to beep at a certain level of force so you could know when you are holding six seconds of 250 pounds of force (for example) at a particular position. If you say one or two seconds is a "rep" you could run any %RM fitness program with it. At $500 it costs less than a power rack plus weights and bars but uses a different method of building strength and muscle that is well researched to be just as valuable.

Would I trade movement with a barbell for the ease of static loading by pushing a button instead of moving plates around? Probably. I mostly use bodyweight and kettlebells now. I hated constant plate changes on the barbell when I trained with it many years ago (before SF and without real results FWIW). Yes I am lazy.

Can a cheap crane scale be programmed to notify the user when a specified weight is reached and when that weight is no longer at the right tension?
Can a cheap crane scale be programmed to beep when you reach peak tension and record it it so you don't need a training partner to read it for you all the time?
If it has no audio, can you even see the weight on your crane scale while you use it for most exercises?

I know of no cheap crane scale with these features. If you can tell me the make and model I'd certainly get one. That is the real value of the Isochain.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
I am surprised the Isochain is dismissed so often. To me it seems pretty cool. It is a crane scale with a computer that can beep when you reach peak weight and show the readout or be programmed to beep at a certain level of force so you could know when you are holding six seconds of 250 pounds of force (for example) at a particular position. If you say one or two seconds is a "rep" you could run any %RM fitness program with it. At $500 it costs less than a power rack plus weights and bars but uses a different method of building strength and muscle that is well researched to be just as valuable.

Would I trade movement with a barbell for the ease of static loading by pushing a button instead of moving plates around? Probably. I mostly use bodyweight and kettlebells now. I hated constant plate changes on the barbell when I trained with it many years ago (before SF and without real results FWIW). Yes I am lazy.

Can a cheap crane scale be programmed to notify the user when a specified weight is reached and when that weight is no longer at the right tension?
Can a cheap crane scale be programmed to beep when you reach peak tension and record it it so you don't need a training partner to read it for you all the time?
If it has no audio, can you even see the weight on your crane scale while you use it for most exercises?

I know of no cheap crane scale with these features. If you can tell me the make and model I'd certainly get one. That is the real value of the Isochain.
The features of the scale are a definite plus.

The downside is the tool itself in my opinion. Is nothing more than an old Hoffman trainer. The number and limit of exercises is nowhere near what can be done with a barbell, starting with a back squat. Nor can one train at long muscle length, many of the lifts it IS well configured to perform.

But yes, I have no doubt it can be part of an effective regimen and compared to a lot of gym gear really isn’t priced too outrageously.
 

BillSteamshovel

Level 5 Valued Member
Can a cheap crane scale be programmed to notify the user when a specified weight is reached and when that weight is no longer at the right tension?
Can a cheap crane scale be programmed to beep when you reach peak tension and record it it so you don't need a training partner to read it for you all the time?
If it has no audio, can you even see the weight on your crane scale while you use it for most exercises?

I know of no cheap crane scale with these features. If you can tell me the make and model I'd certainly get one. That is the real value of the Isochain.
I was wondering about those questions myself and started googling bluetooth crane scales hoping to send the measurement to a tablet display, I found this LINK so they do exist just gotta find one in the country you live in, I don't know how reliable Alibaba and BangGood etc are nowadays

Then I started wondering if you could use a tablet camera or a webcam to video the measurement of a non-bluetooth -scale and display it where you might comfortably see the measurement whilst doing the exercises.

Usually when I start mucking about with things like this there are several things that I didn't foresee until I actually tried to execute the plan.

Any thoughts ?

EDIT : 300kg bluetooth Australian Supplier HERE
 
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Kenny Croxdale

Level 7 Valued Member
I am surprised the Isochain is dismissed so often.

Dismissal of Isochain Training

What survey demonstarated "Dismissal of Isochain Training"?

With that said, two Strength Training Methods that are misunderstood and not employed correctly is due to a lack knowledge are...

1) Eccentric Only Training

2) Isometric Training


Since the Isochain involves that latter, Isometrics, let delve into that.

a) Isometrics ensure maximum Motor Unit Recruitment when performed when the greatest force/effort is applied during the Isometric Action.

b) Isometric Actions allow individual to Strengthen their Sticking Point in a Movement; where the weight slows down or stop moving.

Many individual believe the Sticking Point is where the weight stop moving; which isn't the case.

Car Analogy

Think of it like a car that runs out of gas but continues to roll until it stops, if you don't put on the brakes.

Where the car stops is not where the car ran ouf of gas. That's true with Sticking Point in a movement.

Solution

To effectively strengthen the Sticking Point in a movement. An Isometric Action needs to trained just below where the weight stopped moving, as wells as where the weight stopped moving just above and below were it stopped moving.

Research shows that performing an Isometric Action increases Maximum Strength at 15 Degree above and below the point of the Isometric.

a crane scale with a computer that can beep when you reach peak weight

Peak Weight Resistance

The Crane Scale should register and record "Peak Force Production" rather than "Average Force Production."

Dr. Bryan Mann's, University of Miami as an Assistant Professor of Kinesiology and Sport Science. research determined that while "Average Force Production" provides good feedback, "Peak Force Production" was more effective at determing and develolping Force Production with athletes.

know when you are holding six seconds of 250 pounds of force (for example) at a particular position.

"Average Force Production"

Holding a Isometric Action and measuring it most likely yields your "Average Force Production" for those 6 seconds.

Your "Peak Force Production" will be much higher, developed in a shorter period of time. As per Mann, "Peak Force Production" provide more effective feedback and development of Maximum Strength.

With Sticking Point Isometric Training, Martial Arts, a Batter Hitting a Baseball, you want to produce the HIghest "Peak Force" Possible in your Sticking Point and at the point of impact with a punch, kick or contact in hitting a ball,

At $500 it costs less than a power rack plus weights and bars but uses a different method of building strength and muscle

Power Racks

Isometric Training is one of the keys to increasing Maxium Strength.

Dr Michael Yessis research determined that approximately 10% of the Soviet's Strength Training Program consisted of Isometric Training.

1669639080013.png

With that said, a Power Rack provides more versatilty in the development of Maxium Strength Training.

Accommondationg Resistance Training Example

This means attaching Chain and/or Band to an Ascending Strength Curve Movement: Squat, Press, Deadlift, Leg Press, Good Morning, etc

In all movements, only one-third of the muscles are OverLoads in any exercise. Attaching Chains and/or Bands, ensure that the muscles in the movement are OverLoaded through a greater Range of the Movement.

To measure the Resistance, I use a Fish Scale.

It measure up to 100 lbs of Chain and/ Band Resistance. This Scale is enough for that but not for an all out effort Isometric Action; a Crane Scale is necessary for that.

The Fish Scale locks in "Peak Force" (resistant chain and band force/resiostance load) when it is achieved for you to see.
1669637264157.png
Moot Questions

The bottomline is that you don't need any type of device when performing an Isomteric Action. While the feedback is intereting it is not necessary.

The Scale Reading often become an ego issue with how much Force your produced, similar to stating how much yuu can Bench Press, Squat, etc.

What matter in an Isometric Action during an Intense Training Session is Pushing or Pulling as hard as you can around a 6 second period, as a means of increasing Maxium Strength.
 

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GovernorSilver

Level 4 Valued Member
I've tried the Promethean, 6x6, Burn Count, Iron Man and 3 Days On programs on Isochain.

I like 6x6 for strength-focused training. Paul Wade's book for it is great, but the two hypertrophy programs - Burn Count and 3 Days On - appear to have a typo or two. I did a mashup of those two and did achieve modest hypertrophy in the arms, albeit with my error-prone tape measuring technique.

Currently doing Schedule C of Easy Muscle for hypertrophy. Will follow with Isochain 6x6 for 6 weeks, primarily to boost my shoulder press max force, then get back to Easy Muscle for - hopefully - Schedule A training (KB clean and press only). Depends on if I've gotten my shoulder ROM back by then.
 

GreenSoup

Level 6 Valued Member
@BillSteamshovel
I also thought about cameras and mirrors for non-bluetooth items. But that goes into Rube Goldberg Device territory where there might be more time in set up than exercise. Those links seem like cool options for those local enough. I found one in the US that is NOT bluetooth but it does have a "max hold" kind of feature that would be good for testing. It's like a part of the isochain functionality.
Dismissal of Isochain Training

What survey demonstarated "Dismissal of Isochain Training"?
It was probably more in another forum but I wrote about the scale benefits because of this comment:

It just a chain, handle and plate to stand on.

The $499 price is absurd.

That's why I wrote about how the scale affects training. That said, although the max isometrics info you wrote about was immediately useful for training without the scale, I was thinking more of the isometrics like Christopher Sommers had promoted for gymnastics and some of the plans that were for strength or hypertrophy from this:
The article looked at dozens of methods of training aside from peak force but it probably takes some web searching to find the full article somewhere. Although I don't have the isochain book to compare with its 6 second rule on the web site, this article promoted hold times of 1-5 seconds for a lot of the max strength work and longer for hypertrophy.
 

Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
I have been following @North Coast Miller 's excellent thread, here :



I don't know much about isometric training, independent of what I've read from @North Coast Miller , but I associated the value of isometric training with the advice to try lifting a bar that's too heavy, in order to practice the wedge; to train yourself for generating maximum tension.

1669741104340.png
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
I’m not very familiar with sub-max isometrics. In my usage, every shot is MVC limited only by time on/off and ramp-up speed.

A lot of the initial discomfort is a long gone thing of the past. One of the things that people should probably do with wedging or when getting into overcoming Iso generally, really pay attention to the muscles that are tightening up. Shift around a little to make it more obvious, then settle back in. Either ramp up gradually, or if using them for more of an adaptive response, ramp up to about 20-30% as prep and then fire to 100% as fast as possible.

When using them in shorter, all out pulses, it becomes apparent that a big part of the spike in force from a power application is the mass of the body being accelerated.
 

GovernorSilver

Level 4 Valued Member
The 3 Days On hypertrophy program, as written in Paul Wade's isometrics book, has you applying enough force to achieve muscle failure within a 20-45 second time frame. If your force is too little, you'll breeze past the 45-sec. mark. If it's too much, you won't get to 20 sec. This is one of the few programs, as written, that do not make use of either Timed or Load mode on the Isochain, and thus can be applied to just about any equipment like the World Fit Iso-loop, a yoga strap, etc.

I haven't tried anything close to what Richard Monoson advices at 38:00 - low-intensity isometric contraction for at least 5 min. I've done 20% of 1-rep max force for 2 min (Iron Man program), but I didn't observe any results. Monoson seems to be getting something out of the low-intensity, long duration holds.
 
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