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Off-Topic Jason Fung Did Nothing Wrong

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GreenSoup

Level 6 Valued Member
While this thread has taken many directions, I am surprised no one mentioned this StrongFirst fat loss method:
Or perhaps no one has spoken about why this one does not (supposedly?) require dieting for fat loss.
 

Ryan T

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
While this thread has taken many directions, I am surprised no one mentioned this StrongFirst fat loss method:
Or perhaps no one has spoken about why this one does not (supposedly?) require dieting for fat loss.
Something like this will work up to a point, but not for all and not as a long-term strategy if you have a significant amount of weight to lose. It’s a good thing to point out though.
 

Dayz

Level 7 Valued Member
@Adachi why no pic from the front? I guess we know why lol

Even leaving BMI, which you don’t qualify as someone who is carrying too much lean mass to break the measurement, the other popular measurement is if your waist is half your height or less. Yours firmly isn’t. It seems my question where I didn’t understand how someone who hasn’t had success can talk like you did, is answered by you thinking you aren’t obese/have had success.
I don't think personal attacks are very helpful. You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder, which says more about you than anyone else, and detracts from any contribution you might make to discussion.
 

Hrungnir

Level 6 Valued Member
If @Adachi continues to follow his current strategy and is no longer obese based on the measurements you’ve referenced, would he be able to reiterate the same post without push back? What if he’s 3 lbs shy? Not successful? Most people struggle with some form of stubborn fat and people hold fat differently. That plus large amounts of fat loss may also lead to a lot of loose skin, so tape measurements may not reflect the whole story. This isn’t a contest where someone makes it onto the podium or not.

I may have misread this (because the posts are long and so is the thread) but, I’d say a 50 lbs weight loss is significant progress towards a goal, and using that as grounds to state an opinion about efficacy of Dr. Fung’s models is not inappropriate. Perhaps they are bunk or the results are not due to the mechanisms claimed, but Dr. Fung himself is certainly not obese and he’s had great success with people who come to his clinic.

I’d offer that this post has sparked a thread of information that may have other approaches that just as much or more water depending on who’s attempting them.

@Adachi has also done a good job of modeling humility and grace when responding to your comments which so far, have not added any substantive value. If you’ve got something useful to say, then let’s hear it.
We can without doubt say that calorie restriction causes weight loss. Whether caloric restriction can’t occur due to behavioral, societal, environmental factors is a separate discussion but that is indisputable.

Context also matters. If he were to continue the weight loss, yes he would be right and vindicated. Would this post be updated if he failed or succeeded? No? Then the post shouldn’t occur until he has succeeded, because it is now memorialized on the internet and without context will only further cause spread of misinformation.

If someone who can deadlift 135#, made a similar post on deadlift training they would be told to shut up and train. They aren’t strong enough to have an opinion and I’ve seen it happen on this forum and others countless times. Is it celebrated that he went from the bar to 135#, so he has had success and should speak his opinion? Is it stated that he might be strong someday in the future so his opinion currently is valid? Why is that strength shaming different?

Does his post carry a different context once you realize the body he keeps describing as “not obese” and a “power body” is in fact obese? Of course it does, why is pointing out that he lied a negative? Sure it’s impolite, but he could have also not attempted to soap box something he shouldn’t have.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
I do recall someone smarter than me (can't remember the name but he's someone who is not a fan of the insulin-centric idea) describing his view on blaming insulin for all your woes this way :
It's not all about insulin.​
It's not all about the calories.​
It's a two-way street.​
One effects the other like in a dance.​

Have you had your T tested?
 

Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
Have you had your T tested?
No.

But I did once take "test boosters" from a friend.
A weeks worth, If I remember correctly.
I didn't ask for more when every thing and everyone around me became annoying.

I almost , almost, called my coworker stupid when she asked me what time it was , I pointed at the clock on the wall, in the break room. And she said, oh yeah. I'm glad I didn't vocalize it but I was close.

I remember looking back at that as being out of place.

Haven't thought of it since.
 

Bill Lets

Level 5 Valued Member
Caloric restriction works on a level that can’t be disputed, there’s a reason you don’t see pictures of obese Jews in concentration camps.
I just have to say the “Jews” in the concentration camp were being starved which is much MORE than calorie restriction.

@Adachi much respect don’t stop and thank you for your service.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
No.

But I did once take "test boosters" from a friend.
A weeks worth, If I remember correctly.
I didn't ask for more when every thing and everyone around me became annoying.

I almost , almost, called my coworker stupid when she asked me what time it was , I pointed at the clock on the wall, in the break room. And she said, oh yeah. I'm glad I didn't vocalize it but I was close.

I remember looking back at that as being out of place.

Haven't thought of it since.

I have no idea what you took, but "test boosters" sounds pretty sketch.

As @Geoff Neupert said, T levels can have an impact on muscle metabolism, which has an impact of obesity, in addition to adipose tissue itself being estrogenic.

You might want to get a screening for test.
 

silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
I just have to say the “Jews” in the concentration camp were being starved which is much MORE than calorie restriction.
... Isn't the definition of starvation "a severe deficiency in caloric energy intake, below the level needed to maintain an organism's life"?

I'm not following what you are trying to say I guess. Even if you look at "rabbit starvation" it is more an issue of malnurishment than starvation.
 

Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
I have no idea what you took, but "test boosters" sounds pretty sketch.

As @Geoff Neupert said, T levels can have an impact on muscle metabolism, which has an impact of obesity, in addition to adipose tissue itself being estrogenic.

You might want to get a screening for test.
I also don't know. He's one of my favorite guys to ask about fitness though. Very down to earth guy. He let me check out all the barbells he had in his commercial gym, to give me an idea of what I might like to buy.

He lifts at least 4 plates on a trap bar for sets of 5.
And he was glad to give me a little bit of coaching on my form with a barbell. He was my former PT NCO as it were.

So, I always thought well of him.

I might get a panel done . I know a Buddy of mine just started testosterone therapy after his doctor said he was low. I might check with him to see how it's going.
 
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Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
If he's selling it with needles, it's at least slightly more likely to be at least partially legit sauce.

If it's an oral, it's probably just some yohimbe, ephedra, and other stuff to get you wired and tired.
Lol he did offer me a gear, or tron ? From a needle. I politely declined.
 

Ryan T

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I also don't know. He's one of my favorite guys to ask about fitness though. Very down to earth guy. He let me check out all the barbells he had in his commercial gym, to give me an idea of what I might like to buy.

He lifts at least 4 plates on a trap bar for sets of 5.
And he was glad to give me a little bit of coaching on my form with a barbell. He was my former PT NCO as it were.

So, I always thought well of him.

I might get a panel done . I know a Buddy of mine just started testosterone therapy after his doctor said he was low. I might check with him to see how it's going.
I recently had this done. I figured being in my middle age it would good to get a yearly baseline. The men's health clinical did several panels and went through all the results with me. My T was a bit low but in the normal range. They didn't recommend T because the subjective questionnaire didn't reflect symptoms of low T. The MD's comment was we're not just numbers. My Vit D levels were really low so I started taking 5,000 IUs.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
Yeah , actually. Is that common? I remember feeling bamboozled by the names of stuff.

See "duchess cocktail", Russian athletes at the Sochi winter Olympics.

It's on the WADA/USADA PED list. I'm most familiar with it in that context due to USAW testing.

Used by bodybuilders, too, although I don't hang in that community enough to know how common it is.
 
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