KBell Snatch: A&A, Q&D, ...?

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by william bad butt, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    Pavel recommends this in the Q&D book.
    Roland Roppelt likes this.
  2. Bauer

    Bauer More than 500 posts

    I suppose Damiola meant alternating during the same training week, whereas Pavel talks about 6-8 week blocks.
    william bad butt likes this.
  3. Damiola

    Damiola Double-Digit Post Count

    That's what I meant. Monday/Thursday A+A, Tuesday/Friday Q&D, for example.

    Maybe even Q&D followed by A+A in the same workout? In some workouts, probably where Q&D volume is low.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  4. rickyw

    rickyw More than 500 posts

    Harald has done similar for quite a while
  5. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    So I started yesterday... I haven't done anything since Sept 22 (powerlifting meet), almost an entire month off. I really pushed myself hard preparing for the meet and these last few weeks off of training were on purpose. During my layoff I had some significant work stress (planned) and a vacation (traveling).

    Yesterday I did some light sets of 5 pause squats, sets of 5 of deadlifts (pause at mid shin), and sets of 5 reps of floor presses. All of this was 5 or 6 RPE, maybe 40% of my max. I then did some "stir the pot" movements and started snatching. This is my 1st kettlebell snatch (or 1 arm swing) in a loooooooong time (either early 2019 or late 2018). I used the 24 kg. It felt pretty light. My form felt a little clumsy but not too bad, I just need to get in more reps. I just started easy and did 5 sets of 5 reps each arm (long rests), I think that would be called 10 Repeats in STRONGFIRST terminology. I could have kept going but I purposely am showing constraint, I'll add more (volume and/or size bell) every session.

    Today (Sunday). I went with my wife to her gym, Planet Fitness. On a side note, she has no interest in powerlifting, barbells, or kettlebells, I gave up trying to convert her years ago. She does her own thing (machines, walking, runnin . Elliptical, and dumbells). I did isolation machine excersises, 3 or 4 sets of 10, bodybuilding type stuff. Super super light weight. I had a little DOMS from the pause squats (previous day) and I think it helped to get some blood flow. I actually got a better workout vs what I was expecting. I had fun hanging out with her at Planet Fitness, and I think she appreciated it. I think I will join her every Sunday.

    I will do a few more A&A sessions this week plus some walking (weight vest). I would like to get at least 1 long (1 hr plus) walk each week plus daily short ones. I'm also going to squeeze in some accessory excersises (for example, 1 arm bottoms up kbell bench press [body hanging off the bench], single leg deadlifts, etc...), things that Brian Carroll prescribes for me.

    This is the plan. So far I am off to a good start for week #1. I will repeat each week. Essentially strength training on Saturday (Brian Carroll is programming this for me using powerlifts or derivatives of powerlifts), Planet Fitness on Sunday, and A&A snatching and weighted walks throughout the week. I am planning on continuing this until 2020, maybe Spring, until I decide to peak for a powerlifting meet.

    I'm just trying to keep things simple. If anybody has any suggestions let me know.


  6. Anna C

    Anna C More than 5000 posts Elite Certified Instructor

    I found it helpful to do a barbell session once every two weeks when I changed things up earlier this year back to kettlebell and bodyweight strength training. Just to keep the movements familiar and see how the weights felt.
  7. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    Thanks @Anna C , I will keep using the barbell once per week. I still want to get stronger.
    Anna C likes this.
  8. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    I took Mon and Tues off, just walked a lot. I had severe DOMS from taking so much time off, especially in the triceps. Today (Wed) I did my 2nd A&A session with a 24 kg. I did 6 sets of 5 reps each arm. Each session I will do a bit more. The 24 kg is feeling very light but I dont want to get ambitious.


  9. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    I had a good training session today. 1st week is going well. Today I did some McGill pull ups, barbell shrugs, goblet squats, 1 leg kbell good mornings, and bottom-up kbell uneven bench press (half of body hanging off the bench to engage core).

    After this I did some A&A snatches. 7s of 5 reps each arm 24 kg. After 3 sessions the 24 kg bell feels really light. Just going slow.

    After my snatches, I picked up my 125 lb sandbag and did a very short walk (100 yards).

    It was an easy day. I make every day easy!

    Tomorrow I plan going on a loooong walk, and that will complete my training week. Copy paste for next week.


    Snowman and ShawnM like this.
  10. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    Alright, 1+ week in and it's going well so far. Every once in a while Ill post with results. But here is a summary of the program:

    Saturday --> (1) Barbell Pause Squats 3x5, 1 top set, (2) Barbell Pause Deadlifts 3x5, 1 top set, (3) Barbell floor press 3x5, 1 top set, (4) A&A snatches, (5) Stir the pot

    Sunday --> (1) Planet Fitness bodybuilding stuff. Machines and dumb bells, 3x10. Very light weights. Full body isolation excersises but lots of emphasis on triceps. Including Stir the pots. (2) Later in the day, Long walk, 1 hrs +, with weighted vest

    Tuesday --> A&A snatches

    Wednesday or Thursday --> (1) McGill pull ups 5sx2r, (2) Barbell shrugs 3sx10r, (3) goblet squats 3x10, (4) 1 leg kbell good mornings 3x10, 1 arm kbell (bottoms up) uneven bench press 3x10, (5) A&A snatches, (6) Heavy Sandbag carries or farmers walks, (7) Stir the pot

    Every Day --> short walk, half the time with a weight vest.

    Note I do a lot of work on the weekends. This is by design since I have more free time.

    I have this as a 4 day per week workout program. Sometimes I may separate the A&A snatches from the other stuff (not do it in the same day) and add more training days (but they will be easier/shorter days). Same amount of work, just spread out over more days.
    Snowman and ShawnM like this.
  11. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Forum Administrator Senior Certified Instructor

    Sounds like you're thinking about this well to me. Very smart to take some down time after the meet.

    william bad butt likes this.
  12. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    Thanks @Steve Freides !

    Yes I am trying something a little different. Normally I would be following a 100% kettlebell program like ETK+ for a few months.
  13. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    Traveling this week for work in Branchburgh NJ. I brought my 28 kg bell and got a few sessions of snatches in. 10 sets of 5 reps, each arm (or 20 repeats).

    The 28 kg does not feel any heavier than the 24 kg. Both feel light. I could snatch it all day I think, if I wanted to. My 24 kg bell has burrs on the handle, so the 28 kg bell is actually easier on my hand. The skin on my hand is definitely my week point. With only 20 repeats I'm not having issues, but if I increased the volume issues may arise. Next week I'll slowly start introducing the 32 kg.

    So far I seem to recover very rapidly. I am forcing myself to take long Rests in between sets. But if I wanted to, I think I could continue within 30 seconds no problem.

    Attached Files:

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  14. Xene

    Xene Double-Digit Post Count

    It's important to take care of your hands from the beginning. Otherwise your hands will force you to step down after some weeks.
    william bad butt likes this.
  15. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    Thanks! I do feel like I am losing the battle, in terms of my hands. I know there are posts about this topic, I'll read them.

  16. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    I started transitioning to the 32kg bell for snatches. Going from 24 to 28 was effortless. I can feel the weight difference of the 32, but it isnt heavy, maybe medium. I'll give it a couple/few weeks and see how it goes, then maybe try the 36 kg bell.

    I really dont like this time zone change. Getting home, in the dark, is not the greatest motivator for my evening weighted walks (the aerobic part of A&A). I slacked off a bit this week. I can do better.

    My strength workouts (barbell and Planet Fitness, lol) are going awesome and my nutrition is spot on. My sleep, in general is great (but this last week was bad, but it will be resolved next week). I was hoping to drop a few lbs (~237 down to ~220), over the next few months, so I can eventually compete in a lower weight class for powerlifting. My weight really hasnt changed much in 3 weeks. I do seem to be hardening up more, though, which is pretty amazing (I was fairly solid to start with). Like some weird bodybuilding transformation is occurring.
  17. Mat Roberts

    Mat Roberts Double-Digit Post Count

    @Harald Motz how you found Q n d with snatches. Have you put any other lifts like deadlifts/ pull up / presses with it

    What software are you using to monitor h.r
  18. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    I am doing frequent zercher squats and barbell pressing for some months now and plan doing so for some further months.

    zerchers for 10 total reps +- 5 or so, barbell press for 20 total +-10 or so.
    I do not a program. I just expose myself frequently to the lifts and plan not to get weaker...

    Pavel wrote an article recently on how to do dl alongside q&d.

    I use the polar 'm430' and the 'polar flow' and 'polar beat' apps. (When doing kb stuff, the watch is besides me, I do not wear it then)
    Bauer likes this.
  19. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    I sprinkled some sets with the 36 kg bell today (A&A). I am really liking this training plan. I am feeling really strong , motivated, and energized. Heavy barbells on Sat, fluff and buff on Sun, some accessories mid week, and A&A snatches/walking program seems to be a good fit for me. Sleeping like a baby and eating like I'm 2 people seems to help as well.
    runninggirevik, rickyw, Bunn and 4 others like this.
  20. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    For fun, yesterday I tried snatching the 40kg bell. At the moment, I am still working primarily with the the 32kg, but about 30% of my sets are with the 36 kg.

    The 40 kg bell def feels heavier. I'm starting to approach my limit. The snatch is fine. In fact, the bell explodes up with no problem. It is on the downward drop where I feel the weight. I had to grip the handle on the down swing (so I didnt drop the bell), whereas with the <36kg I can keep my hand open and let the handle ride my finger tips (I dont even need my thumb).

    I'm going to stick with the 32/36 for a couple week, then transition 100% to 36. Then I'll start sprinkling the 40 in. But on this downward drop, does it matter if I squeeze the handle vs a loose grip? Maybe my fingertips will get stronger in that time.

    I was watching the videos posted by @Harald Motz , above, and it seems like he is gripping/squeezing the bell on the downward swing. So maybe it is ok. I'm worried my palm-skin will get ripped up.


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