Kenny Croxdale- rotating lifts

Jeff Roark

Level 6 Valued Member
Kenny,

Question for you sir if you have the time. Several years ago I started following a version of the old JP Sanchez Program. If you're not familiar, the basic run down is that you train 2x per week, 1 upper and 1 lower, and on week 1 you squat and incline press, week 2 you deadlift and bench. I found really good success with this. I had been stumbling along in my training and had basically got completely sick of the big 4, regular squat, bench, deadlift, and MP. So, I decided early this year to set one goal for a big lift and I chose my worst lift, the Front Squat. After finally seeing some progress and enjoyment from the new lift, I decided to change up all of my lifts away from the big 4. I picked 4 lifts for upper body and 4 lifts for lower, all new lifts that I had never done consistently. After about 6 months of rotating through these lifts on a 4 week cycle and am really starting to see the positive effects in all areas. I'm getting more powerful every workout, this was not something I was expecting heading toward 46 years old.

Another thing I have found is that moving away from the old worn out big 4 is that certain pains, that were definitely limiters, are all slowly fading away. I think that not over using the same movement patterns has taken the brakes off in certain areas allowing me now to put the mojo into the movements. My training is not Westside but I'm tending to go more and more that direction now with reducing my total volume of barbell work and focusing more on my single joint accessory work. I know I feel so much better with this approach in all manners.

Now, to get the point after novel above, have you found their is a limit to the number of lifts that one can rotate on a weekly basis and still get good results? I've been contemplating using up to 6 different lifts in my rotations but am hesitant thinking that it may be too far in between lifts. Any guidance on this would be appreciated.- Jeff
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
Several years ago I started following a version of the old JP Sanchez Program. If you're not familiar, the basic run down is that you train 2x per week, 1 upper and 1 lower, and on week 1 you squat and incline press, week 2 you deadlift and bench. I found really good success with this.
John Sanchez

I am not familiar with John. I had to look him up.

I lived in Bryan, TX (about 90 miles from Austin). I lifed and refereed at meets in Austin, Houston, Dallas, etc. So, I am not sure how I missed seeing, hearing or knowing him.

Training Program

I skimmed and article from John. I agree with some of his ideas and method and other not so much.

I need to take time and completely read it and then re-read it. There is some good information in it.

He had great success with his Training Program and you are having success with it; which is all that matters.

Squatting and Deadlifting

His Squatting once every 10 days and Deadlifting every 10 days makes sense. Research by Dr Fred Hatfield demonstrated common knowledge, large muscles take longer to recover.

Dr Tom McLaughlin (PhD Biomechnics, former Powerlifter) noted that "The lower back is quickly and easily overtrained". So, beating it up with Heavy Squats and Heavy Deadlift doesn't make sense. It didn't work for me.

Standard Powerlifting Protocol

For years, I followed the Standard Powerlifting Protocol: Squat once, Bench twice and Deadlift twice each week. I found that Squatting and Deadlifting, impeded my Squat and wasn't effective for my Deadlift.

Unlike John, as you probably know from some of my post, I am a huge propent of Heavy Partial Good Mornings. I found that they (alone with Power Cleans; per Bill Starr's Deadlift Training Program from 1969) dramatically increase my Meet Deadlift.

Okay, I have rambled enough...

have you found their is a limit to the number of lifts that one can rotate on a weekly basis and still get good results?

Number of Lifts

Yes, I have found that as Sanchez said, that I do better with less.

High Intensity, Short Training Sessions

I respond mentally and physically to more intense, shorter training session with fewer exercises.

Mike Burgener, USA Olympic Lifting Coach

I took the Olympic Lifting Club Coach Program from him years ago.

One of the interesting things Burgener went into was how some athletes, like his son, Casey Burgener (who was on the USA Olympic Weightlifting Team) responded to Higher Intensity, Shorter Training Sessions.

However, the Olympic Lifting Coach at Colorado Springs was an advocate of High Volume Training; training Casey that way.

Casey's lifts went done. After Mike flew up and tore the Olymic Coaches a new one; Casey went by to High Intensty, Short Training Sessions.

With that in mind, let's look at...

High Volume Training

Some Lifters and Bodybuider respond and flurish with High Volume Training.

I tried if off an on for years. It didn't work for me.

I've been contemplating using up to 6 different lifts in my rotations but am hesitant thinking that it may be too far in between lifts. Any guidance on this would be appreciated.- Jeff

Goldilocks

You're a smart guy and know this aready.

Like Goldilocks, it comes down to "Tasting the Porridge" to find out if "Using up to 6 differernt lifts in rotation" is not enough, too much or just right.

"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing."

As per Einstein, many of his experiements were based on educated guesses./theories.

Years ago, I watch a PBS program on Einstein and his theory on "Bending Light"; I still can't figure that out.

Initially, Einstein got it wrong. It took him a couple of years to figure it out and get it right.

This leads us to how Alexander Gram Bell viewed research...

"If something I try doesn't work, I don't view it as failure. I view it as eliminating what doesn't work and moving closer to finding out what will work."

As with most things, sometimes you have the right "Ingredients". However, you just need to keep tweeking them to get it right.

That is all I got for you. :)
 
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Antti

Level 9 Valued Member
John Sanchez

I am not familiar with John. I had to look him up.

I lived in Bryan, TX (about 90 miles from Austin). I lifed and refereed at meets in Austin, Houston, Dallas, etc. So, I am not sure how I missed seeing, hearing or knowing him.

Training Program

I skimmed and article from John. I agree with some of his ideas and method and other not so much.

I need to take time and completely read it and then re-read it. There is some good information in it.

He had great success with his Training Program and you are having success with it; which is all that matters.

Squatting and Deadlifting

His Squatting once every 10 days and Deadlifting every 10 days makes sense. Research by Dr Fred Hatfield demonstrated common knowledge, large muscles take longer to recover.

Dr Tom McLaughlin (PhD Biomechnics, former Powerlifter) noted that "The lower back is quickly and easily overtrained". So, beating it up with Heavy Squats and Heavy Deadlift doesn't make sense. It didn't work for me.

Standard Powerlifting Protocol

For years, I followed the Standard Powerlifting Protocol: Squat once, Bench twice and Deadlift twice each week. I found that Squatting and Deadlifting, impeded my Squat and wasn't effective for my Deadlift.

Unlike John, as you probably know from some of my post, I am a huge propent of Heavy Partial Good Mornings. I found that they (alone with Power Cleans; per Bill Starr's Deadlift Training Program from 1969) dramatically increase my Meet Deadlift.

Okay, I have rambled enough...



Number of Lifts

Yes, I have found that as Sanchez said, that I do better with less.

High Intensity, Short Training Sessions

I respond mentally and physically to more intense, shorter training session with fewer exercises.

Mike Burgener, USA Olympic Lifting Coach

I took the Olympic Lifting Club Coach Program from him years ago.

One of the interesting things Burgener went into was how some athletes, like his son, Casey Burgener (who was on the USA Olympic Weightlifting Team) responded to Higher Intensity, Shorter Training Sessions.

However, the Olympic Lifting Coach at Colorado Springs was an advocate of High Volume Training; training Casey that way.

Casey's lifts went done. After Mike flew up and tore the Olymic Coaches a new one; Casey went by to High Intensty, Short Training Sessions.

With that in mind, let's look at...

High Volume Training

Some Lifters and Bodybuider respond and flurish with High Volume Training.

I tried if off an on for years. It didn't work for me.



Goldilocks

You're a smart guy and know this aready.

Like Goldilocks, it comes down to "Tasting the Porridge" to find out if "Using up to 6 differernt lifts in rotation" is not enough, too much or just right.

"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing."

As per Einstein, many of his experiements were based on educated guesses./theories.

Years ago, I watch a PBS program on Einstein and his theory on "Bending Light"; I still can't figure that out.

Initially, Einstein got it wrong. It took him a couple of years to figure it out and get it right.

This leads us to how Alexander Gram Bell viewed research...

"If something I try doesn't work, I don't view it as failure. I view it as eliminating what doesn't work and moving closer to finding out what will work."

As with most things, sometimes you have the right "Ingredients". However, you just need to keep tweeking them to get it right.

That is all I got for you. :)

Regarding your program of good mornings and power cleans, which part do you consider more important, and by how much? Have you tried either alone? Personally, I have found the good morning to be an excellent exercise for powerlifting and in general.

Regarding the individual preferences for volume or intensity, have you found there to be a difference between different lifts or muscle groups? Myself, I find there's a major difference between my bench and my squat or deadlift and how they can handle volume.
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
Regarding your program of good mornings and power cleans, which part do you consider more important, and by how much? Have you tried either alone?
Post Activation Training

My training revolves around Post Activation Potentiation Training.

Performing a Strength Movement followed by a Power Movement.

So, no I do not train either alone.

Regarding the individual preferences for volume or intensity, have you found there to be a difference between different lifts or muscle groups? Myself, I find there's a major difference between my bench and my squat or deadlift and how they can handle volume.
Muscle Groups; intensity and Volume

Like you, I find that I can perform more Upper Body (like Bench Sets) than I can with Lower Body (like Squats Sets).

I can perform slightly more volume with some Auxiliary Upper Body Exercise than with the Lower Body.
 

Jeff Roark

Level 6 Valued Member
Quick question- are we not allowed to start a discussion with particular person on this forum? Also, with it being a discussion that others may enjoy too? q.Hung has come at me with twice now, "Is this a private messenger for Kenny?" Once with Anna C and now with Kenny. Not sure what his issue is but if he doesn't like my posts he can keep his nose and coffee cup out of them.
 

Jeff Roark

Level 6 Valued Member
John Sanchez

I am not familiar with John. I had to look him up.

I lived in Bryan, TX (about 90 miles from Austin). I lifed and refereed at meets in Austin, Houston, Dallas, etc. So, I am not sure how I missed seeing, hearing or knowing him.

Training Program

I skimmed and article from John. I agree with some of his ideas and method and other not so much.

I need to take time and completely read it and then re-read it. There is some good information in it.

He had great success with his Training Program and you are having success with it; which is all that matters.

Squatting and Deadlifting

His Squatting once every 10 days and Deadlifting every 10 days makes sense. Research by Dr Fred Hatfield demonstrated common knowledge, large muscles take longer to recover.

Dr Tom McLaughlin (PhD Biomechnics, former Powerlifter) noted that "The lower back is quickly and easily overtrained". So, beating it up with Heavy Squats and Heavy Deadlift doesn't make sense. It didn't work for me.

Standard Powerlifting Protocol

For years, I followed the Standard Powerlifting Protocol: Squat once, Bench twice and Deadlift twice each week. I found that Squatting and Deadlifting, impeded my Squat and wasn't effective for my Deadlift.

Unlike John, as you probably know from some of my post, I am a huge propent of Heavy Partial Good Mornings. I found that they (alone with Power Cleans; per Bill Starr's Deadlift Training Program from 1969) dramatically increase my Meet Deadlift.

Okay, I have rambled enough...



Number of Lifts

Yes, I have found that as Sanchez said, that I do better with less.

High Intensity, Short Training Sessions

I respond mentally and physically to more intense, shorter training session with fewer exercises.

Mike Burgener, USA Olympic Lifting Coach

I took the Olympic Lifting Club Coach Program from him years ago.

One of the interesting things Burgener went into was how some athletes, like his son, Casey Burgener (who was on the USA Olympic Weightlifting Team) responded to Higher Intensity, Shorter Training Sessions.

However, the Olympic Lifting Coach at Colorado Springs was an advocate of High Volume Training; training Casey that way.

Casey's lifts went done. After Mike flew up and tore the Olymic Coaches a new one; Casey went by to High Intensty, Short Training Sessions.

With that in mind, let's look at...

High Volume Training

Some Lifters and Bodybuider respond and flurish with High Volume Training.

I tried if off an on for years. It didn't work for me.



Goldilocks

You're a smart guy and know this aready.

Like Goldilocks, it comes down to "Tasting the Porridge" to find out if "Using up to 6 differernt lifts in rotation" is not enough, too much or just right.

"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing."

As per Einstein, many of his experiements were based on educated guesses./theories.

Years ago, I watch a PBS program on Einstein and his theory on "Bending Light"; I still can't figure that out.

Initially, Einstein got it wrong. It took him a couple of years to figure it out and get it right.

This leads us to how Alexander Gram Bell viewed research...

"If something I try doesn't work, I don't view it as failure. I view it as eliminating what doesn't work and moving closer to finding out what will work."

As with most things, sometimes you have the right "Ingredients". However, you just need to keep tweeking them to get it right.

That is all I got for you. :)
Thanks for the response Kenny. I'll share my program in a bit. I hate to tamper with it much, especially when things are going as good as they are. I got to get some cardio work in and take the kid to baseball practice after.
 

Jeff Roark

Level 6 Valued Member
John Sanchez

I am not familiar with John. I had to look him up.

I lived in Bryan, TX (about 90 miles from Austin). I lifed and refereed at meets in Austin, Houston, Dallas, etc. So, I am not sure how I missed seeing, hearing or knowing him.

Training Program

I skimmed and article from John. I agree with some of his ideas and method and other not so much.

I need to take time and completely read it and then re-read it. There is some good information in it.

He had great success with his Training Program and you are having success with it; which is all that matters.

Squatting and Deadlifting

His Squatting once every 10 days and Deadlifting every 10 days makes sense. Research by Dr Fred Hatfield demonstrated common knowledge, large muscles take longer to recover.

Dr Tom McLaughlin (PhD Biomechnics, former Powerlifter) noted that "The lower back is quickly and easily overtrained". So, beating it up with Heavy Squats and Heavy Deadlift doesn't make sense. It didn't work for me.

Standard Powerlifting Protocol

For years, I followed the Standard Powerlifting Protocol: Squat once, Bench twice and Deadlift twice each week. I found that Squatting and Deadlifting, impeded my Squat and wasn't effective for my Deadlift.

Unlike John, as you probably know from some of my post, I am a huge propent of Heavy Partial Good Mornings. I found that they (alone with Power Cleans; per Bill Starr's Deadlift Training Program from 1969) dramatically increase my Meet Deadlift.

Okay, I have rambled enough...



Number of Lifts

Yes, I have found that as Sanchez said, that I do better with less.

High Intensity, Short Training Sessions

I respond mentally and physically to more intense, shorter training session with fewer exercises.

Mike Burgener, USA Olympic Lifting Coach

I took the Olympic Lifting Club Coach Program from him years ago.

One of the interesting things Burgener went into was how some athletes, like his son, Casey Burgener (who was on the USA Olympic Weightlifting Team) responded to Higher Intensity, Shorter Training Sessions.

However, the Olympic Lifting Coach at Colorado Springs was an advocate of High Volume Training; training Casey that way.

Casey's lifts went done. After Mike flew up and tore the Olymic Coaches a new one; Casey went by to High Intensty, Short Training Sessions.

With that in mind, let's look at...

High Volume Training

Some Lifters and Bodybuider respond and flurish with High Volume Training.

I tried if off an on for years. It didn't work for me.



Goldilocks

You're a smart guy and know this aready.

Like Goldilocks, it comes down to "Tasting the Porridge" to find out if "Using up to 6 differernt lifts in rotation" is not enough, too much or just right.

"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing."

As per Einstein, many of his experiements were based on educated guesses./theories.

Years ago, I watch a PBS program on Einstein and his theory on "Bending Light"; I still can't figure that out.

Initially, Einstein got it wrong. It took him a couple of years to figure it out and get it right.

This leads us to how Alexander Gram Bell viewed research...

"If something I try doesn't work, I don't view it as failure. I view it as eliminating what doesn't work and moving closer to finding out what will work."

As with most things, sometimes you have the right "Ingredients". However, you just need to keep tweeking them to get it right.

That is all I got for you. :)
Kenny-
My current plan works like this. I use straight weight for 1 month, 2nd month is +chains, 3rd month straight weight, 4th month +bands, and then start over. For my main lifts for the week I work up to a top single(usually something I could do 3 reps with if pushed) and then I drop back to 70% of that top single for 1-3 sets. On lower body I usually only do 1 set of usually 8-15 reps, but for upper its between 1-3 sets depending on how I feel. If I do more than 1 set for the upper main lift its a 50% set or sometimes a rest-pause set.

For my lifts this is what I am doing now.

Week 1
Upper- Low Incline Press
Lower- SSB Box Squat

Week 2
Upper- Floor Press
Lower- Sumo Rack DL

Week 3
Upper- Decline Press
Lower- Zercher Squat

Week 4
Upper-Seated Rack Press
Lower- Snatch Grip Rack Pull

I think with the variations between straight weight w/ chains and bands is probably more than enough. I also picked an American Cambered Swiss Bar from Elitefts so that gives even more press variation within the same lift.

What I was considering was putting the Jefferson and Hack lift into the rotation for the lower body and regular bench press and one arm KB press for the upper. I think I'll just wait it out and if I need a change I'll just substitute because I don't think I need to get to spread out.
 

Jeff Roark

Level 6 Valued Member
Regarding your program of good mornings and power cleans, which part do you consider more important, and by how much? Have you tried either alone? Personally, I have found the good morning to be an excellent exercise for powerlifting and in general.

Regarding the individual preferences for volume or intensity, have you found there to be a difference between different lifts or muscle groups? Myself, I find there's a major difference between my bench and my squat or deadlift and how they can handle volume.
I've also been doing some standing and seated good mornings as assistance work. What kind weights did you guys have to get to before you started seeing the benefits from them?
 

q.Hung

Level 6 Valued Member
Quick question- are we not allowed to start a discussion with particular person on this forum? Also, with it being a discussion that others may enjoy too? q.Hung has come at me with twice now, "Is this a private messenger for Kenny?" Once with Anna C and now with Kenny. Not sure what his issue is but if he doesn't like my posts he can keep his nose and coffee cup out of them.
Not at all. I thought that you want to keep that and this conversation private, so I notice you. If not, then silly me! Please continue!
 

Antti

Level 9 Valued Member
I've also been doing some standing and seated good mornings as assistance work. What kind weights did you guys have to get to before you started seeing the benefits from them?

It of course depends on the individual in question and squat/deadlift levels etc.

I'd say about 50-60% of squat 1RM for sets is where the magic starts to happen. I've found it very worthwhile to go up to 80% or so, and for sets, so relatively really not that far from the squat. I've read some get great results with less load. I found it a very enjoyable lift which carried over so I kept pushing as long as it didn't take too much away from me.

I think the good morning merits a places a main movement instead of always used as an accessory. Still, it's a great accessory as well. I think it's worth doing almost every block or week in some manner. It's also very popular at Westside.

Your program looks very good to me and interesting. Though personally I prefer a higher frequency.
 

Alan Mackey

Level 6 Valued Member
It of course depends on the individual in question and squat/deadlift levels etc.

I'd say about 50-60% of squat 1RM for sets is where the magic starts to happen. I've found it very worthwhile to go up to 80% or so, and for sets, so relatively really not that far from the squat. I've read some get great results with less load. I found it a very enjoyable lift which carried over so I kept pushing as long as it didn't take too much away from me.

I think the good morning merits a places a main movement instead of always used as an accessory. Still, it's a great accessory as well. I think it's worth doing almost every block or week in some manner. It's also very popular at Westside.

Your program looks very good to me and interesting. Though personally I prefer a higher frequency.
I don’t think I could ever do a GM at 80%.

That’s probably way more than I would dare to lift doing RDLs and just a nice percentage for a Stiff Legged Deadlift.
 
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Jeff Roark

Level 6 Valued Member
It of course depends on the individual in question and squat/deadlift levels etc.

I'd say about 50-60% of squat 1RM for sets is where the magic starts to happen. I've found it very worthwhile to go up to 80% or so, and for sets, so relatively really not that far from the squat. I've read some get great results with less load. I found it a very enjoyable lift which carried over so I kept pushing as long as it didn't take too much away from me.

I think the good morning merits a places a main movement instead of always used as an accessory. Still, it's a great accessory as well. I think it's worth doing almost every block or week in some manner. It's also very popular at Westside.

Your program looks very good to me and interesting. Though personally I prefer a higher frequency.
I think its probably like Kenny said above, a Goldilocks thing. I'm just going to keep what I'm doing with them as of now and just slowly progress them like everything else. Once I hit the magic spot for myself it should become evident.

This frequency for me is perfect. I'm getting stronger every day. I also forgot to add that I do have a 3rd day, but this has been added just recently for my Front Squat goal. Its a lighter dynamic day with a quick lift, front squats, and some jumping and throwing. With it I fit in when I can get it in. Some weeks it never gets done and I haven't seemed worse for the wear once I do manage it.
 

Antti

Level 9 Valued Member
I don’t think I could ever do a GM with at 80%.

That’s probably way more than I would dare to lift doing RDLs and just a nice percentage for a Stiff Legged Deadlift.

The percentages are here just to give a rough estimate on how I've done it. It's always context dependent.

Funny about the RDL... I guess I'm crazy since I've done a triple at 120% of my 1RM squat.

I don't really use such percentages in my own planning as I don't see the need, either for a goal or for a limit. I just pick some lifts, do them, and see where I get with them. I'm not a young world class lifter so I don't have to take it as seriously.
 

Geoff Neupert

Level 7 Valued Member
Beast Tamer
Kenny-
My current plan works like this. I use straight weight for 1 month, 2nd month is +chains, 3rd month straight weight, 4th month +bands, and then start over. For my main lifts for the week I work up to a top single(usually something I could do 3 reps with if pushed) and then I drop back to 70% of that top single for 1-3 sets. On lower body I usually only do 1 set of usually 8-15 reps, but for upper its between 1-3 sets depending on how I feel. If I do more than 1 set for the upper main lift its a 50% set or sometimes a rest-pause set.

For my lifts this is what I am doing now.

Week 1
Upper- Low Incline Press
Lower- SSB Box Squat

Week 2
Upper- Floor Press
Lower- Sumo Rack DL

Week 3
Upper- Decline Press
Lower- Zercher Squat

Week 4
Upper-Seated Rack Press
Lower- Snatch Grip Rack Pull

I think with the variations between straight weight w/ chains and bands is probably more than enough. I also picked an American Cambered Swiss Bar from Elitefts so that gives even more press variation within the same lift.

What I was considering was putting the Jefferson and Hack lift into the rotation for the lower body and regular bench press and one arm KB press for the upper. I think I'll just wait it out and if I need a change I'll just substitute because I don't think I need to get to spread out.
Back in the mid-90s, I ran into a powerlifter in one of my classes.

He structured his programs in a very similar way - rotating main lifts on a weekly basis. He swore by it.

And his numbers kept going up.

I couldn't understand it at the time because I was studying the Bulgarian's Weightlifting system.

But if it works, it works.

A few years later, while training with my Cuban coach, I stumbled on Louie Simmons' articles on "Deepsquatter.com" and then the pieces started to fall into place.

As long as it's working, keep on using it.

Thanks for sharing.
 

Alan Mackey

Level 6 Valued Member
The percentages are here just to give a rough estimate on how I've done it. It's always context dependent.

Funny about the RDL... I guess I'm crazy since I've done a triple at 120% of my 1RM squat.

I don't really use such percentages in my own planning as I don't see the need, either for a goal or for a limit. I just pick some lifts, do them, and see where I get with them. I'm not a young world class lifter so I don't have to take it as seriously.

Just for context and my peace of mind… What poundages are we talking about?

My best RDL is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay lower than my squat.
 

Jeff Roark

Level 6 Valued Member
Back in the mid-90s, I ran into a powerlifter in one of my classes.

He structured his programs in a very similar way - rotating main lifts on a weekly basis. He swore by it.

And his numbers kept going up.

I couldn't understand it at the time because I was studying the Bulgarian's Weightlifting system.

But if it works, it works.

A few years later, while training with my Cuban coach, I stumbled on Louie Simmons' articles on "Deepsquatter.com" and then the pieces started to fall into place.

As long as it's working, keep on using it.

Thanks for sharing.
Geoff,
My training has morphed into what it is mainly by necessity at this stage, but I also had many clues trying to show me the way that I would learn and forget, only to come back around to them again. I've had the knowledge from my own experience for years but I didn't trust myself most of the time. For me, it required some type of verification/clarification from someone else that I felt was more experienced and knowledgeable. And thats fine, because you can learn something from anyone.

What brought me to where I am now is injuries. I've blown both knees out doing BJJ/Judo. Left knee once and the right knee twice. I probably need surgery on both, but I am stubborn about things like that. Once you get cut on you're never the same in my opinion, especially once you pass the mid 30s. I also ruptured my right bicep tendon from the shoulder. These things started me looking for alternative exercises that I could do without making things worse. In my pea brain I thought that if I couldn't do the regular squat, bench, deadlift, and military press that my training would probably be totally useless. How badly fooled I was. I think I may be the strongest I have ever been, all the way around. If I'm not there yet, its not far away.

Since the 90s I had these clues staring me down...

Clue#1- Noticed early on that I could only follow a certain routine for around 3-4 weeks before burning out. These were routines that I pushed heavy weights and to failure. I'd change something about the routine or exercises and all would be good again, at least for another 3-4 weeks. There was no "de-loading" back then, but an obscure book that I got with a subscription to Ironman magazine described exaclt what I had found. It was Ironmans "Mass Training Tactics" book and they called it the "Rotation for Recuperation". In time I would stumble upon the concept again via Bryce Lane's "Have it All" routine which I coined the 50/20. Later on Jim Wendler starts talking of de-loads.

Clue#2- When my Deadlift climbed over 400lbs I simply could not Deadlift every week. I would drain out in a hurry and start to regress. I decided to start doing it every other week and bingo, progress resumed. I found the article from JP Sanchez on the old Power and Bulk forum in the early 2000's but ignored what he was saying and kept beating my head against the wall. I would see the article on Paul Carters blog again and I applied it and easily won a push/pull meet at work using it. About that time I found an article Stan Efferding wrote talking about his training and he basically did the same exact thing .

Clue#3- I'd had pain in the front of my shoulders for years, the same spot in the front of the shoulders that everyone complains about hurting when benching constantly. When I ruptured my right bicep tendon the strangest thing happened, that sore spot disappeared! I stopped benching, well all pressing for a good while, I guess maybe up to year and only did body weight work and my shoulders just kept getting better. Once I started back trying to press I decided that I didn't want to bench press because it was giving me that pain that I had finally gotten rid of. I was doing floor presses to reduce the range of motion thinking that this would help. But, I listened to a video from Matt Wenning and he was talking about "pressure points" that one gets when they overuse the same movement patterns with heavy loads. This can lead to pain and injury. Louie Simmons has talked for years about avoiding accommodation by rotating the lifts every 1-3 weeks. He says you can't use 90% weights and above for more than 3 weeks in a row before you start to backwards. These things started my rotation of lifts. With this I have also found that I no longer struggle with hip pain that I've had in my right hip for years and years. I guess Louie talking about avoiding accommodation also pertains to clue 1 above.

Just a few things...
 

Alan Mackey

Level 6 Valued Member
The aforementioned RDL triple was 300kg/660lbs.

tenor.gif
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
Noticed early on that I could only follow a certain routine for around 3-4 weeks before burning out. .... I'd change something about the routine or exercises and all would be good again, at least for another 3-4 weeks.
Periodization Training

The foundation of Periodization Training is a progressive cycle that starts off easy then increases the loading/intensity each week.

The final week is then pushed to near failure or failure in exercises.

Once the final week is completed, a new Training Program is initiated with a light, easy load. Each week, as before, the load/increases, ending with with the final week being pushed to the limit.

This falls in line with...

Active Recovery

Active Recovery promts faster recovery after a final week of a heavy, hard training.

It increase blood flow to the muscles which essentially feeds the muscles and takes out the trash, metabolic waste.

Passive Recovery

This method amount to taking time off and doing nothing. It is less effective than Active Recovery.

Tudor Bompa's Periodiation Training

Bompa literally wrote the book on Perioidization Training. It has been around for decades.

The method prescribed, in some form or fashion are the foudation Strength Coaches employ with Athletes.

Undulalting/Non-Linear Periodization Training

Charles Poliquin was one of the first to utilize this approach. Training cycles are rotated more quickly than with Bompa's approach. Each method is effective

Poliquin's first article on Non-Linear Periodization Training appeared in th 1989 National Strength and Conditioning Research Journal.

"Training Age"

One of the determinate factors in the length of a Training Program is "Training Age"; the length of time someone has been training, not their chronilogical age.

Novice Lifters adapt more slowly to training. Thus, they can maintain the same training program for a longer period to time before they need to change it; 8 -12 weeks.

Advance Lifter adapt quickly to a training. Thus, they need to change/rotatate and change their exercises more frequently; 3-4 weeks.

There was no "de-loading" back then,

De-Loading, Reloading

Acutally, there was some "De-Loading" back then." It was and is still being used, based research by Sports Scientist. One of the best periodicals on it was, "The Soviet Sports Review". Amerian, Dr Michael Yesses, spoke Russian and translated all of the "Soviet Sports Review" reseach into English.

The "Soviet Sports Review" is usually only availble in large University Libararies. I spend a few afternoons, year ago at Cal State Fullerton University going througth articles and printing some of the out.

The research data from then is still appliacble today.

There is a tremendous misunderstanding when it come to whoever dumbbed down, De-Load and Reload.

I'd like to find the moron that came up with this term and the misconceptions of it and break their leg with a baseball bat; metaphorically speaking.

Periodization Training's Cycling combines a planned recovery period in with heavy, high intensity training as a means of eliciting a greater training effect.
 
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Boris Bachmann

Level 6 Valued Member
I've also been doing some standing and seated good mornings as assistance work. What kind weights did you guys have to get to before you started seeing the benefits from them?
I've never had a lot of luck w. seated good mornings, but I was probably doing too much too soon and too much lumbar. Chuck Vogepohl I am not...

For standing GMs, I've done a lot of different stances, generally for higher reps (and consequently lower intensity) in the 5-10rep range.
 
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