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Kettlebell Kettlebell AXE - general discussion

ShawnM said:
Over the summer I had my daughter doing OTM A&A Jump Squats twice a week and Push Ups twice a week to get her ready for Field Hockey and it worked very well. She isn't the biggest athlete on the field, but the extra strength and explosive ability has helped her to be able to withstand contact from the taller and larger girls and be able to break away and out sprint them when needed.
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Shawn, great to hear. Consider having your daughter rotate between jump squats, box jumps, and split squat jumps (covered in our newsletter awhile ago) to make it safer to the knees.
 
Pavel said:
Antti, it is unlikely AXE will improve your lifts if you are doing serious PL training. It is likely to help you stay healthy though.

Limit your AXE swings to 20min twice a week. When your PL load is hypertrophy focused, swing 12-24 hours before SQs or DLs; when nervous system focused, 12-24 hours after. Stop before a meet; how soon, you will need to experiment.
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Thank you for the answer, Pavel. Got the book, will do the programming as advised.
 
rwleonard said:
As always, Pavel's work is information dense. There is a reason for every single thing he puts in his work, and he gives enough depth of knowledge to apply principles to other areas.

I find the value of Pavel's work to be head and shoulders above any other fitness author's works I have read.

I have also found, surprisingly (cough, cough) that I make my best gains when I just do what he says to do, just the way he says to do it.
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rwleonard, thank you for your kind words!
 
George Vrotsos said:
Love this idea. I've been trying to think of a fun way to get my 7 yo daughter doing some PT since her P. E. class is skimping on the Physical. I think she'll take to OTM jump squats once or twice a week once I get her comfortable doing body weight squats. Thank you.
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George, structured AXE is the best choice for a 7-year old. Kids need more variety for development and, as for the work duration and rest periods, they unconsciously go anti-glycolytic.
 
AXE, fun and interesting to read, as always Pavel's books are. I have followed Pavels work since 2008 and it feels you always find something new when rereading some book. I bet it will be same with this one too.
Right now I am in the middle of Q&D cycle but maybe I incorporate a session of AXE on weekend just to get "taste" of it.

Thanks for the book Pavel
 
Excellent book, very well documented as always! Thanks
I'm thinking of combining this program with phase 1 of Strong (2 sessions of Strong and 1 or 2 of AXE) or even phase 2 (2 Strong and 1 AXE). Snatch? Swing? Probably swing to limit overhead work.
 
I'm planning to mix AXE swings with two separate pressing sessions, as it's written in the book. I remember that in Joe Rogan's podcast you said that you just do swings and dips. Which dip protocol would you practice to pair the swings?
Another astonishing book Pavel, I appreciate your work, which has helped me keeping practices simple in an overcomplicated world. Thank you.
 
Tom7 said:
AXE, fun and interesting to read, as always Pavel's books are. I have followed Pavels work since 2008 and it feels you always find something new when rereading some book. I bet it will be same with this one too.
Right now I am in the middle of Q&D cycle but maybe I incorporate a session of AXE on weekend just to get "taste" of it.

Thanks for the book Pavel
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Thank you, Tom!
 
DrG said:
Excellent book, very well documented as always! Thanks
I'm thinking of combining this program with phase 1 of Strong (2 sessions of Strong and 1 or 2 of AXE) or even phase 2 (2 Strong and 1 AXE). Snatch? Swing? Probably swing to limit overhead work.
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Thank you, DrG.

What is "Strong"?
 
Miguel Sunen said:
I'm planning to mix AXE swings with two separate pressing sessions, as it's written in the book. I remember that in Joe Rogan's podcast you said that you just do swings and dips. Which dip protocol would you practice to pair the swings?
Another astonishing book Pavel, I appreciate your work, which has helped me keeping practices simple in an overcomplicated world. Thank you.
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Thank you, Miguel!

You can program dips in a similar manner as the AXE swings. You will have fewer stop signs to go by; the talk test and the HR do not apply to smaller muscle groups.
 
Pavel said:
Claude, both programs are AXE (note the broad definition in the book); the differences will mostly due the different exercises.

The C&J is more comprehensive because of the jerk. When you swing, you need to do something for the upper body.

Many ways to do it, e.g., the GU part S&S, or of Kettlebells StrongFirst.

GU after the SW, although not necessarily right after.
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Thank you very much for your reply, I will experiment with the GU, same day but a few hours later (home office is fantastic for this) or next day, and report back!

Brgds
Claude
 
Pavel said:
Antti, it is unlikely AXE will improve your lifts if you are doing serious PL training. It is likely to help you stay healthy though.

Limit your AXE swings to 20min twice a week. When your PL load is hypertrophy focused, swing 12-24 hours before SQs or DLs; when nervous system focused, 12-24 hours after. Stop before a meet; how soon, you will need to experiment.
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@Antti, I know we are both powerlifters. I have had what I believe to be good results by doing swings the day after powerlifts, which since my lifitng is almost always skill-focused, is what Pavel recommends.

I have my own little hybrid approach which I've mentioned here before, a mashup of my understanding of the various benefits of swings with one and two hands as I've come to understand from reading pretty much everything around here, including by not limited to what Andy Bolton and Fabio have said about heavy 2h swings and what I've gleaned from S&S and Q&D.

I like to do a "series" of 10 left, 10 right, and either 5 or 10 two-handed (choosing 5 or 10 depending on the weight I'm using). I do those three sets on some sort of clock, typically on the 1:15 for me, then take a longer rest before repeating the series up to 4 times in total.

Example

00:00 - 32 kg x left x 10
01:15 - 32 kg x right x 10
02:30 - either 48 kg x 2h x 10 or 56 kg x 2h x 5

rest until the 5:00 or 6:00 mark on the timer, then repeat the above series.

I have no science to support my particular approach, just my feeling that I'm covering a lot of bases by doing my swings this way.

-S-
 
s f said:
How long should a set last if one is sprinting or cycling--until one of the 5 stop signs is reached vs a numerical option?
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Pavel said:
SF, stop a sprint when you are no longer accelerating—going faster, not just fast.
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@s f, I have heard Pavel's advice before (perhaps read it in Q&D? ...) My experience in trying to follow it has been that I can keep accelerating if I go between 15 and 25 steps. Often my first sprint is 15 steps, and I will switch to 20 or 25 as I warm up a bit. When I sprint up stairs, I find that about 20 steps, taken 2 at a time so it's 10 of my steps, is about right also if that might help you.

I don't do any of this on a track. I have stairs when I cross under the local train station on my way to the grocery store, so I usually sprint up once in each direction (to the store, home from the store) and will also often sprint across a street/intersection on my way there. Sometimes I'll enter the train station at a different place and go up one flight of stairs, down another, and up a third. I also take a path through some woods that crosses streets in my neighborhood, so I'll walk between cross streets then sprint across them and continue until I feel I've stopped accelerating.

Hope this is helpful.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
@Antti, I know we are both powerlifters. I have had what I believe to be good results by doing swings the day after powerlifts, which since my lifitng is almost always skill-focused, is what Pavel recommends.

I have my own little hybrid approach which I've mentioned here before, a mashup of my understanding of the various benefits of swings with one and two hands as I've come to understand from reading pretty much everything around here, including by not limited to what Andy Bolton and Fabio have said about heavy 2h swings and what I've gleaned from S&S and Q&D.

I like to do a "series" of 10 left, 10 right, and either 5 or 10 two-handed (choosing 5 or 10 depending on the weight I'm using). I do those three sets on some sort of clock, typically on the 1:15 for me, then take a longer rest before repeating the series up to 4 times in total.

Example

00:00 - 32 kg x left x 10
01:15 - 32 kg x right x 10
02:30 - either 48 kg x 2h x 10 or 56 kg x 2h x 5

rest until the 5:00 or 6:00 mark on the timer, then repeat the above series.

I have no science to support my particular approach, just my feeling that I'm covering a lot of bases by doing my swings this way.

-S-
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Thanks, Steve.

I'll try your method out as well. Looks like a reasonable approach.

Personally, I too am gravitating towards the skill based approach for the foreseeable future.

So far, I've used the swing as a high rep accessory on off days, or as a preliminary exercise for the day before squats or deadlifts. I'm eager to see how a more structured approach works.
 
Hi @Pavel,

I enjoyed the new book.

You've written books on Q&D and Axe, and you've said that you have an upcoming book on Metal Heart.

Is there any chance we'll see a book on super slow 2.0?

(I've enjoyed using the programming principles from the slow twitch articles for several years now, and I'd enjoy reading more of your thoughts on the protocol)
 
DrG said:
The Kettlebell STRONG program for Clean and press by Geoff Neupert
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DrG, some rules of thumb to help you:

1. If the training session is aimed primarily at the nervous system (speed, power, max strength), do it before AXE. If it is aimed at hypertrophy or any type of endurance, then after.

Ideally, separate AXE and the other training in time at least by a few hours. E.g., heavy lifts Monday night and AXE Tuesday morning or AXE in the morning and hypertrophy or other endurance work in the evening.

3. No matter what qualities/lifts/goals you are training, you have to limit the number of items you push hard to 1-2.
 
Torin said:
Hi @Pavel,

I enjoyed the new book.

You've written books on Q&D and Axe, and you've said that you have an upcoming book on Metal Heart.

Is there any chance we'll see a book on super slow 2.0?

(I've enjoyed using the programming principles from the slow twitch articles for several years now, and I'd enjoy reading more of your thoughts on the protocol)
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Thank you, Torin.

There will be no book on Super Slow 2.0 but if you look up my articles you will find 3 that will tell you what you need to know.
 
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