Thoughts on upper back attack and lucky 13?
Kettlebell Kettlebell HARD! (Geoff Neupert)
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BrianCF
Level 7 Valued Member
Just finished Lucky 13. Heavy day is a bear. The last week, I altered it. Same amount of time, just rested between exercises vs. rounds.
Ran it as a chain Good leg shaker as both lunges and squats are included. It's not often a double snatch feels like relief.
I blogged about it here
Upper back attack, I felt was one of the easier ones. Ran as a chain, only 5 reps. The last week of 7 rounds was a lot of work. A real good one to start with if you're new to Kettlebell Hard/More Kettlebell Muscle.
Mark, I'm a HUGE fan of both Jerk Work and Herky Jerky. 2 of my favorites. They're awesome. Pretty difficult, but in a great way.
I'm not so sure if I'll end up trying those two but you never know..
For jerk based plans, I love RMF and KB elite by Hector Gutierrez Jr.
Singlecoilquack
Level 3 Valued Member
I've been waiting to find a deal for a pair of 16kg KBs so I can actually run some of the programs in HARD!. Got a notification today that Walmart has kettlebells back in stock as of this morning, in case any one else is cheap like I am and doesn't want to spend much more than $1/lb. And, as always, free shipping.
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Eugenio
Level 6 Valued Member
Yes, I had some experience with complexes. I just finished The Olympic 3.0 with 24 kg kettlebells.
Now I'm considering what to start. Nothing too extreme
SUOMI-PUKU
Level 6 Valued Member
Are people doing these complexes as their only training M/W/F or doing other things alongside?
The barbell bolt-on looks interesting to go alongside to work on max strength while taking care of the test through complexes.
The barbell bolt-on looks interesting to go alongside to work on max strength while taking care of the test through complexes.
BrianCF
Level 7 Valued Member
You can run these as your only training. Some of these are so nasty that you should.
I've run them in the past doing 2 at the same time. MWF Shoulder Smoker, TTS, You Don't Know Squat, for example I've also done them 2 weeks in 1. MTW, Week 1 Lucky 13, TTFS, Week 2.
The workouts are so brief, that you can do other stuff, as long as it doesn't interfere with the main program. Or, enjoy the offdays and just walk.
Trying to get some guidance on how to approach a dilemma i'm facing while running WOLF, and I would assume is a challenge that would come up on other complexes.
I am comfortable working with double 20s, except for the Heavy day. So I brought the weight down to double 16s. Now I feel that the Med and Light days feel very easy. How can I make this work? I was thinking of the following options
1. Use double 16s on M and L days but compress rest times
2. Use double 20s for M and L days but double 16s for H day
3. Use double 20s but on H day take a break in between the complex by putting the bells down for like 5-10 secs.
4. Last option is dont alter the program and use double 16s even if M and L days feel very easy
Any thoughts on how to approach this? I was planning to write to @Geoff Neupert directly but thought this might be something that others might also be facing. Of course, would appreciate @Geoff Neupert 's advice regarding the same.
I am comfortable working with double 20s, except for the Heavy day. So I brought the weight down to double 16s. Now I feel that the Med and Light days feel very easy. How can I make this work? I was thinking of the following options
1. Use double 16s on M and L days but compress rest times
2. Use double 20s for M and L days but double 16s for H day
3. Use double 20s but on H day take a break in between the complex by putting the bells down for like 5-10 secs.
4. Last option is dont alter the program and use double 16s even if M and L days feel very easy
Any thoughts on how to approach this? I was planning to write to @Geoff Neupert directly but thought this might be something that others might also be facing. Of course, would appreciate @Geoff Neupert 's advice regarding the same.
BrianCF
Level 7 Valued Member
Use the 20's for light and medium day. On heavy day, if you can, do one set with the 20's. If not, use the 16's. If you can do one set with the 20's. during the next heavy day or 2 weeks heavy day, try to add on more set with the 20's.
Or consider running it as a chain, not a complex. You're still going to get dirty, but it's easier to do one rep of an exercise than 5 straight reps.
I like chains better than complexes.
I have another tweak that I use sometimes, by turning the complex into a rest/pause workout.
You do need to figure out how long a sets is going to take. So, let's say it takes 100 seconds to do a round on heavy day. And you have 4 rounds to do. Work : Rest is 1:2. So you rest 200 seconds between rounds.
Round 1, 300 seconds, Round 2, 300 seconds, Round 3 300 seconds Round 4 100. The workout is going to take 1000 seconds or 16:40.
Each round consists of 6 exercises. So break down each round. 6 exercises per round, x 4 rounds =24 sets of exercise.
Take 1000 seconds and divide it by 24. You're going to start a new set every 41/42 seconds.
Start clock
Double clean x 5
Put bells down, shake it out until 41 seconds
Front squat x 5 shake it out until 83 second
Press x 5 shake it out to 2:04 and so on until you finish all 24 sets.
You have to watch the clock, but you'll be gassed. And you will finish the workout in the same amount of time.
Or consider running it as a chain, not a complex. You're still going to get dirty, but it's easier to do one rep of an exercise than 5 straight reps.
I like chains better than complexes.
I have another tweak that I use sometimes, by turning the complex into a rest/pause workout.
You do need to figure out how long a sets is going to take. So, let's say it takes 100 seconds to do a round on heavy day. And you have 4 rounds to do. Work : Rest is 1:2. So you rest 200 seconds between rounds.
Round 1, 300 seconds, Round 2, 300 seconds, Round 3 300 seconds Round 4 100. The workout is going to take 1000 seconds or 16:40.
Each round consists of 6 exercises. So break down each round. 6 exercises per round, x 4 rounds =24 sets of exercise.
Take 1000 seconds and divide it by 24. You're going to start a new set every 41/42 seconds.
Start clock
Double clean x 5
Put bells down, shake it out until 41 seconds
Front squat x 5 shake it out until 83 second
Press x 5 shake it out to 2:04 and so on until you finish all 24 sets.
You have to watch the clock, but you'll be gassed. And you will finish the workout in the same amount of time.
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Lessen rest periods as well on light and medium days?
Chris Mills
Level 6 Valued Member
I did Option 3 with Wolf (had to put them down for about 5-10s before I finished), though I hadn't planned it that way. I just simply could not get through a whole set of the hard day in week 1. I think in the 2nd week, I got through the whole complex once but had to rest during the other rounds, and by the 3rd week, I was able to basically do the Hard day of Week 1 (using every bit of will-power in my gut and energy in my body). I think if I had it to do over, I'd either try as a chain, or back-off the weight and make the light and medium days feel.....light and medium, and the hard day......hard, but not impossible. I was following the "use this weight" guidance written into the program, but it was, for me, pretty optimistic.
Singlecoilquack
Level 3 Valued Member
I'm about to start my first program in HARD! but can't decide on one. Would someone mind picking for me? I've narrowed it down to: upper back attack; the universe; sir snatch-a-lot; lucky 13; oh row you don't; clean 'em up.
No, I don't have any particular goals in mind. Just want to leave it up to chance. Thanks for doing me a solid.
No, I don't have any particular goals in mind. Just want to leave it up to chance. Thanks for doing me a solid.
BrianCF
Level 7 Valued Member
Start with Oh Row You Don't. Probably the most user friendly.
Thanks @BrianCF . These are some really interesting options to work with.
Yep. That’s exactly how I approached it. Double 20s are the weight that I am supposed to use but I can’t get through the Heavy day
I was trying to follow the program to the word - to not put down the bells for the entire complex. Maybe I shouldn’t be so stringent to begin with and as I see from your example over time you were able to get through the heavy day with the recommended weight. That makes me optimistic.Erik W
Level 6 Valued Member
I really appreciate this conversation. I've been thinking about changing to a different program; these complexes are harder than any other weight training I can remember doing. It reminds me of running 800s in high school track when I was a sprinter.
The conversation gives me ideas for how to persist, if I continue with KB Hard.
The conversation gives me ideas for how to persist, if I continue with KB Hard.
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A quick update from me. I went through the Heavy day of WOLF with double 20s. I was surprised I could get through the complex. Last time I just couldn’t do it. This time although I could do it my shoulders were the weakest link each set. I am so happy I could do it though. Only on the 4th set I felt my quads weak. Hopefully they are conditioned to get through 5th set next week. Another thing I noticed is this workout took a lot out of my system. Just felt super drained 1 hour after the workout and still do. Had to load myself with carbs.Yep. That’s exactly how I approached it. Double 20s are the weight that I am supposed to use but I can’t get through the Heavy day
I agree. I already owned MKM and HARD is a further refinement of the same. Despite that I went ahead and purchased and don’t regret it at all. Definitely worth it !
Stoneface77
Level 4 Valued Member
Glad to see I am not the only one with this dilemma…. Running the Wolf with the 16 kg was light enough that I was really having to push the pace on the light and medium days to get much of a workout. So I tried the 24’s, and I am having a hard time making it through the last set each day. I’m doing them as a chain, and it seems to be my shoulders that are the limiting factor. However, I like the feeling from doing it with the heavier weights. So I think I will keep the 16’s in reserve for that last set if needed. I guess I was also hung up on doing it as written, but I’d rather get that last chain in than fail on the last few reps.
I concur with @mvikred that this workout takes a lot out of you… have noticed myself dragging a bit and needing more sleep.
I concur with @mvikred that this workout takes a lot out of you… have noticed myself dragging a bit and needing more sleep.
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