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Barbell Kettlebell Military press or TGU with PTTP

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Benjamin Renaud

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Hello, I started a PTTP deadlift cycle for the first time about 10-12 days ago. I did not for the time being include any type of pressing. I wanted to know if I could use the KB military press or TGU instead of the barbell side press. The main reason being that I want to train either one since its in the SFG curriculum. I took the SFG one-day course recently and learned pressing technique. My mobility is adequate for proper form during the press. I usually do TGUs with the 16kg, the 24 kg being my max. My TGU technique is ok too, I have seen an SFG in my area and took a few workshops/classes with him and got good feedback overall. In the KB military press I can do 4-5 reps with the 16kg. I would also like to include some abs work, something from Hard-style abs. I can't do full HLRs (only half or L-hangs/sits), but can do some Hard-style sit ups or hollow body rocks/holds.

Does anyone have a rep range for TGUs or pressing to suggest? And same for abs work.

I have a video from my first 2 sessions doing deadlifts. Video isn't great but should be ok for form check/advice.
 
Your deadlifts look very good - lockout your hips more and they'll be even better.

Hello, I started a PTTP deadlift cycle for the first time about 10-12 days ago. I did not for the time being include any type of pressing. I wanted to know if I could use the KB military press or TGU instead of the barbell side press.
Yes, absolutely.

Does anyone have a rep range for TGUs or pressing to suggest?
I highly recommend Pavel's latest book, "Kettlebell Simple & Sinister." It will give you good guidance on the getup.

To be honest, I've never consider a getup plus a barbell deadlift program - I can say with confidence that using the kettlebell military press with your deadlifts is a solid combination. Pressing generally benefits from higher volume, so consider a different approach to the press but keep the PTTP scheme for the deadlifts.

Welcome to our new forum, @Benjamin Renaud

-S-
 
Your deadlifts look very good - lockout your hips more and they'll be even better.

Yes, absolutely.

I highly recommend Pavel's latest book, "Kettlebell Simple & Sinister." It will give you good guidance on the getup.

To be honest, I've never consider a getup plus a barbell deadlift program - I can say with confidence that using the kettlebell military press with your deadlifts is a solid combination. Pressing generally benefits from higher volume, so consider a different approach to the press but keep the PTTP scheme for the deadlifts.

Welcome to our new forum, @Benjamin Renaud

-S-

Thanks for the deadlift tip Steve, I am starting light to make sure I work on proper technique, these were my first ever barbell DLs.
For the pressing program anything to suggest for somewhat of a newbie to pressing? That I could do 3-5 times a week. I was thinking 1,2,3 ladders 5 days a week with my DLs. Just didn't know how many ladders to do and if it was a good approach to start off.
 
pavel talks about this in PTTP, and Dan John also discusses it in his writing on easy strength, if you are going to be pressing (or practicing any strength movement) 5 days a week you should aim for around 10 total reps each side. 1,2,3 x2 would come out to 12 total reps which should be fine. you can also try 2x5, 5x2, 3x3.... and see how it feels

keeping the volume lower tends to work well with higher frequency training, and 5 days a week would qualify as high frequency
 
I superset my deadlifts with TGUs (1R, 1L). I really like it. During periods when I have access to a barbell it's a go to routine for me. It's in the same vein as simple and sinister.
 
If the total volume of reps per week is very low, I would personally recommend very short sets but lots of them with an extra heavy weight. As in 5 sets of 2 reps or 5 sets of 1 reps a day.
 
If the total volume of reps per week is very low, I would personally recommend very short sets but lots of them with an extra heavy weight. As in 5 sets of 2 reps or 5 sets of 1 reps a day.
@Antti, let him save the extra heavy weights until he's got some experience DL'ing.

PTTP's set/rep/cycle scheme are great, and most people can follow them for a year or more and continue to make progress. The only thing to know is that Pavel has suggested an alternative is to use the same weight throughout and go 5-3-2 on the reps.

-S-
 
pavel talks about this in PTTP, and Dan John also discusses it in his writing on easy strength, if you are going to be pressing (or practicing any strength movement) 5 days a week you should aim for around 10 total reps each side. 1,2,3 x2 would come out to 12 total reps which should be fine. you can also try 2x5, 5x2, 3x3.... and see how it feels

keeping the volume lower tends to work well with higher frequency, and 5 days a week would qualify as high frequency

Thanks for this tip, will try different rep schemes and see what suits me best, or vary depending on how I feel that day but aim for 9-12 reps per day. I would of kept the PTTP rep scheme (2x5) but 5 reps is my max with the 16kg and that is the smallest bell I have. I might include 1-2 TGUs as warmup too.
 
I searched my notes. Pavel has recommended in the past (quote):

...you may use the ‘Enter the Kettlebell!’ Right of Passage press plan, just lower the volume to 3 ladders... There are several options. One is (12345)x3 on the heavy day, x2 on the medium day, and x1 on the light day.
 
I searched my notes. Pavel has recommended in the past (quote):

...you may use the ‘Enter the Kettlebell!’ Right of Passage press plan, just lower the volume to 3 ladders... There are several options. One is (12345)x3 on the heavy day, x2 on the medium day, and x1 on the light day.

Thanks Pavel, would you recommend this instead of what I said in my earlier post? Considering that I can't do 12345 but only 123 or 1234.
 
@Antti, let him save the extra heavy weights until he's got some experience DL'ing.

PTTP's set/rep/cycle scheme are great, and most people can follow them for a year or more and continue to make progress. The only thing to know is that Pavel has suggested an alternative is to use the same weight throughout and go 5-3-2 on the reps.

-S-

I do agree, that it is better to learn new skills one at a time, and keep other forms of training light when concentrating heavily on a new skill. The extra heavy weight is a relative thing, the 16kg should work very well.
 
@Antti You basically want to do my current program. I am doing 5 days a week PTTP deadlifts. I do the old version with 2 sets of 5, not the 5 3 2 version for time constraints reasons. I do also KB presses every day. I started at two ladders of 1 2 3 a month ago, with a 6 RM weight (24 kg). When that got somewhat easy and I saw that the last set of 3 was really far from my max, I started adding a set of 4 to the second ladder. I did this very organically. If I was tired, I only the 1 2 3 twice. If I felt good, the set of 4 was done. Now, I do the set of 4 every day. After a month, my 6RM is now my 8RM. This works really well, at least for me, and seems like magic as none of the reps seem that hard. In fact, once the lift slows down, that's it. The set if done.

One thing that I had missed in the past doing PTTP is that Pavel says that once your cycle if done (you have reached a weight that prevents you from keeping on adding weight), you should take a few days off before starting a new cycle. I did this my last cycle and it makes a world of difference in how I feel, especially of you do a linear progression cycle. The last two or three days can be taxing. I finished my cycle on a Wednesday, and started the next cycle the next Tuesday. I would have started on Monday, but could not train on that day.

I am doing presses right before lunch and deadlifts right before dinner. If you never tried twice a day training and can manage it, I suggest you give it a try. It again feels like cheating and make things even easier. My wife is trying this too and loves it.

I also do so "other stuff", but that's all easy stuff and not essential, like a few goblet squats and some conditioning work a few times a week. Even the conditioning is not that hard most of the times. I make sure that the "other stuff" is not affecting by press and deadlift.
 
@Antti You basically want to do my current program. I am doing 5 days a week PTTP deadlifts. I do the old version with 2 sets of 5, not the 5 3 2 version for time constraints reasons. I do also KB presses every day. I started at two ladders of 1 2 3 a month ago, with a 6 RM weight (24 kg). When that got somewhat easy and I saw that the last set of 3 was really far from my max, I started adding a set of 4 to the second ladder. I did this very organically. If I was tired, I only the 1 2 3 twice. If I felt good, the set of 4 was done. Now, I do the set of 4 every day. After a month, my 6RM is now my 8RM. This works really well, at least for me, and seems like magic as none of the reps seem that hard. In fact, once the lift slows down, that's it. The set if done.

One thing that I had missed in the past doing PTTP is that Pavel says that once your cycle if done (you have reached a weight that prevents you from keeping on adding weight), you should take a few days off before starting a new cycle. I did this my last cycle and it makes a world of difference in how I feel, especially of you do a linear progression cycle. The last two or three days can be taxing. I finished my cycle on a Wednesday, and started the next cycle the next Tuesday. I would have started on Monday, but could not train on that day.

I am doing presses right before lunch and deadlifts right before dinner. If you never tried twice a day training and can manage it, I suggest you give it a try. It again feels like cheating and make things even easier. My wife is trying this too and loves it.

I also do so "other stuff", but that's all easy stuff and not essential, like a few goblet squats and some conditioning work a few times a week. Even the conditioning is not that hard most of the times. I make sure that the "other stuff" is not affecting by press and deadlift.

That is exactly what I had planned to do but with a 16kg. I would love to do 2 sessions a day instead of 1 if ever I can manage it in my schedule.

So either this with very regular volume or something like the ETK pressing plan would work then.

Will have to try and see if I can press 5 days a week without shoulder issues. Even though my mobility is good I need to work a groove for sure, having never pressed regularly before.
 
When I previously did an intensive deadlifting program, I had good results with incorporating partial TGUs (up to the kneeling position only) for volume.

What I did was warm up with a few sets of singles with the traditional TGU, do my deadlifting, then did partial TGUs ladder style as a finisher. I waved the ladders starting from between 5 and 3 reps per side.

What I liked about it is I kept a lot of the shoulder/thoracic benefits of the TGU but didn't wear out my legs with extra volume so I could channel that into deadlifting and recovering. I also popped smoothly back into progressing the weight on my TGU when I throttled back on the DL volume.

This might be a good option for you if you're looking to deadlift and press, but need to meet a TGU test standard.
 
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