Kettlebell Muscle--Any experience with this?

Linna

Double-Digit Post Count
Hey comrades,

I am in a place where I have reached my goals with S+S--32kg without any issue for far under the desired time of the program (Thanks, Pavel!)--and I am looking for another program as I have a tendency to over train. I am thinking of jumping into the 12 week program "Kettlebell Muscle" by Geoff Neupert as I have been neglecting double kettlebell work for the duration of my time with S+S. Does anyone have any experience with this program and does it make sense following S+S? My plan after Kettlebell Muscle is to go back to Enter the Kettlebell, as I was doing that before S+S. Any tips, feedback, or recommendations for the next step would be much appreciated.
 

Faisal

More than 300 posts
Kevin, KB Muscle is very highly regarded by many here and whilst I've not used that program I do use Geoff's other programs and they are brilliant.

Have you considered using Dan John's "template" <a title="here" href="http://www.strongfirst.com/things-are-going-so-well-help-me-screw-it-up-part-2/">here</a> - suggestion is S&S -> ROP -> Total Tension / Return of the Kettlebell.
 

Linna

Double-Digit Post Count
Thank you, Faisal. I remember reading that and completely forgot about it until you reminded me. I have some thinking to do in regards to Kettlebell Muscle or Enter the Kettlebell followed by Kettlebell Muscle. I greatly appreciate the feedback.
 

Steve W.

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Kevin,

I think KBM is a great program. Definitely heed the guideline to use bells you can double MP for 10 reps.

One overlooked thing about KBM that I like is how little thought it requires. Once you choose what size bells to use there is absolutely no decision making involved in running the program. Just show up, set your timer for the prescribed rest interval for that session, and do the sets, reps and rest periods as written. I also like that the rest intervals are prescribed, but the timing of the work sets is not, so you can go at your own pace during each set and focus on technique and getting every  rep without worrying about the clock.

It's very liberating to not have to think about your  training and put all your mental and physical energy into just doing it.
 

Mattsirpeace

More than 500 posts
Discovered my limits with doubles.  If I use 32s much my guts outgrow my pelvis.  A guy with wide hips and ribs could turn himself into The Thing from Marvel Comics.  Congrats on passing "Simple."  I'm close, and it's no joke.
 

Linna

Double-Digit Post Count
Steve, thank you for the feedback. I am excited to start something new and something that forces me to not overtrain. How did you feel/what did you see after the 12 weeks?

 

Matt, I don't think I am at a point to do much with double 32s--I will be crushed! Keep on it with Simple and Sinister. It truly is a great program.
 

Mattsirpeace

More than 500 posts
Kevin,  interesting that our experiences are inverted.  Singles vs. doubles probably has more to do with what's right for your body type, rather than beginner vs. advanced.  I passed the swing portion, just late to the party with getups.
 

Linna

Double-Digit Post Count
Matt, completely agree! Also, S+S helped me break a long standing stuck point so maybe doubles will go differently this time around. Having confidence behind your strength makes a world of difference.
 

jg64

Double-Digit Post Count
Best program I ever did.  Have done it three times, once with 20kgs, once with 24s and once recently with 26 s that I got from Perform Better.

One word of advice, the 10 rep press thing....Geoff advises using a weight you can "comfortably press" 10 times.....this is not your 10 rm......in other words use a bell combo that you can do 10 times with something left in the tank!   Seems easy until the periods are reduced!

 
 

Mattsirpeace

More than 500 posts
One thing I've never seen pointed out is that singles vs. doubles results in different overall muscle distribution.  If you clean, squat, and push press with a pair of 32s, then your waist, butt, and legs will have whatever muscle is necessary to handle 140 lbs, and each shoulder will have whatever muscle necessary to handle 70 lbs.  If you clean, squat, and push press a single 32, then your waist, butt, and legs will have whatever muscle necessary to handle 70 lbs, and your shoulders will still have whatever muscle necessary to handle 70 lbs.  In other words, same shoulders either way, but more lower body with doubles.

I liked Geoff's book, and ROTK.  Doubles were certainly no waste of time; I just arrived at an endpoint.

Really loving the psychology of 10 x10 swings, and applying it to single clean & squats and clean & push presses.
 

Linna

Double-Digit Post Count
John, thank you for the heads up on the bell weight and I am glad to hear how much you liked it! That makes me really interested in jumping into that next. Did you wait the recommended three months in between each time you did it? It truly sounds like a brutal but fun program.

Matt, I truly appreciate your insight on the doubles. I am excited to move into something new and even more excited to see how my swings and get-ups are after the fact. It is nice to know there are a lot more of us out there who not only love kettlebell lifting but view it as a lifestyle!

 
 

jg64

Double-Digit Post Count
Kevin, yes I waited some time before repeating the program, however I love complexes and did others from More Kettlebell Muscle.  Gonna start one today, "clean em up" from MKM.

With respect to the weight selection, even a strong guy would be well advised to check his ego at the door...... you have to maintain form throughout the complex and not rush and get sloppy.  The weight during the first week or two may seem light, but when the volume is increased and rest periods are shortened they have a huge "suck factor" and you'll see what I mean.  I have learned this through trial and error.....err on the side of caution.  The last time I went through it with the 26s, I started with the 28s but realized I wouldn't be able to do it for the extended period with the best of form.

Additionally, recovery is important with this program.....when Geoff says take it easy on off days, he means it.......go for a walk, get a massage, contrasting showers, etc.   As the program advances, you will need the recovery.

Having said that, it is the best all around "one stop shopping" program I have ever done!  You will be conditioned well, stronger, and harder-looking at the end if done right.  It is amazing when people say they don't have time to get in shape..... Some of these workouts are actually less than ten minutes in length and the rubbery feeling in your legs and forearms can be felt for hours afterward.
 

Linna

Double-Digit Post Count
John, enjoy the new program from MKM! The information you provided me has been very helpful. I actually am heading to my gym this morning to test out what weight feels truly manageable for this program. It seems like this program will make you check your ego if you can't do it on your own! I am looking forward to this and hopefully will be able to post the gains, both in strength and in body composition after the program ends. As for the recovery, it is good to know that I should absolutely follow what he says. I am assuming that goes for the increased eating as well! Thank you again!
 

MikeMoran

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I am thinking of a cycle of KB muscle. I have had the book for over a year but have not had time/planning to start it. Right now I am at a great point as I have slimmed down to 180# @6' tall and 32" waist and can comfortabley press my 24kg bells but working on the 32kg. Maybe putting on some muscle will help get the 32kg up? I would start this with my 2x16kg bells.
 

Linna

Double-Digit Post Count
Mike, you couldn't have posted that at a better time. I actually was on the way to the gym to test a few weights to see what I could handle. Attempted a medium day with 20kg bells--brutal. Between an earlier post on checking your ego and your suggestion of the 16kgs, that is where I am starting. I anticipate some quicker an average increases but am first going to focus on form, timing, and commitment before anything else.

 

Comrades, I appreciate all the posts and advice!
 

jg64

Double-Digit Post Count
Kevin, like I said, even though the weights seem light to you, you will be " under tension" for a longer than used to time which will build up a lot of lactic acid.... your heart rate will sore, your grip will be fried and you'll be sucking wind.  Try the 16s, and in three weeks when you think you've got them nailed, the rest periods are reduced by 30 seconds!

These are fast workouts but brutal.  I remember after one of my workouts during my last go through my forearms were rubber for ten minutes after I stopped and I paced around the driveway for several minutes to recover.....talk about EPOC!

Even though the weights used were lighter, my 1RM in the C&P actually increased.  I didn't take measurements or anything but I guess I gained muscle.

Go for it, it's my favorite program Ive ever done.
 

BrianCF

More than 300 posts
John,

Heavy day of Clean 'Em Up is brutal.  Lots of reps.  Complexes and chain are awesome.  I own MKM and have done about 6 or 7 of the programs.  The Long Haul is heinous.

What I would say to anyone whether it be either KM or MKM is if you think you can do 24's, then start with the 20's.  Sure you can press the 24's 10 x, but can you do multiple sets with minimal rest?

The other issue is the programming.  A double snatch is really tough when it's the 4th exercise in a complex or chain.  Also, front squats fatigue your shoulders as well.

You can use heavier weights with chains, but all the movement from exercise to exercise drains your energy.

You can't go wrong with either.
 

jg64

Double-Digit Post Count
Brian, I'm kind of laughing regarding "clean em up"...... I did the double 24s for workout one yesterday and realized there's no way I would be able to sustain good form all the way through on heavy day.  The last round was a bit rushed and poor........ I'm going to practice what I preach and use the 20s.........it is a good program though with a heck of a burn by the last round.
 

Faisal

More than 300 posts
If one has MKM, is it still worth trying to get a copy of KM, used sellers have really over priced it on the UK amazon site and .com wouldn't deliver to the UK (though I managed to get the ROTK from the US site).
 

BrianCF

More than 300 posts
Faisal, I think it depends on if you feel it's a "must have."  I have been tempted to buy it, but never have. I think if you have ROTK, you can put on some muscle with that.  You can do MKM and eat more.  You could also try Escalated Density Training with kettlebells.  That really works as well.  If you pay full price that's one thing, but if you're paying $75, probably not.

John, there are some workouts I've used heavier bells, like Oh Row and Lucky 13, never for heavy day and only when they are chains.  I've been exactly where you are ("I got this, wait no I don't.")
 
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