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Other/Mixed Kettlebell Snatch Test vs. "Grace" (barbell C&J) workout

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Anna C

Anna C

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I've been invited to participate in a really cool event! It's the Donor Games Championship.

It's kind of CrossFit oriented, which is not generally my thing... But I think I can do it. There are 3 events in one day: a 3RM trap bar deadlift, the Grace workout, and the Murph workout. I can definitely do well in the 3RM deadlift, and I have a ways to go with training for Murph (fortunately there is an option for band-assisted pull-ups), but the super interesting one to me is the "Grace Workout." Description and rules are at the link.

Grace, for women, is 30 barbell clean and jerks with 95 lbs (43 kg) for time, with a 15 min time limit. I've heard that 5 minutes is a good time to shoot for, if possible. But up to 15 minutes is OK. Power clean + power jerk is the most efficient way to do the movements. I can easily PC 43 kg.

And, I've been weightlifting for a couple of years now... but I've never done more than 5 C&J in one set! So 30 continuous, or as fast as possible, is an interesting thought. 43 kg is 64% of my current 1RM of 67 kg. So I can definitely do it repeatedly... just not sure what 30 reps will be like.

I actually won't be trying anything like this until after 8/11/22, because that's the date of my next regular weightlifting meet. I'm sticking with the meet prep plan for the meet until that day. After that, I'll have 5 weeks to prepare for the Donor Games with the Grace workout on 9/17/22. So, a purely theoretical discussion until next month... but I'm wondering, will Grace be at all comparable to a kettlebell snatch test? I've done plenty of those...

Grace: 43 kg from the ground to overhead x 30 = 1,290 kg lifted in 5 - to15 minutes
Snatch test: 16kg from the hinge to overhead x 100 = 1,600 kg lifted in 5 minutes (slightly shorter path of travel)
  • Will the physiological demands be similar?
  • Has anyone ever done both, and can say how the experience compares?
  • Would training for Grace be at all like training for a snatch test?
Interested in any thoughts.
 
I used to do Grace as a finisher with 2 kettlebells. I’ve seen videos of Rob Orlando doing it with an atlas stone on YouTube and I think he referred to it as his favourite “WOD”.
 
I've done both and no, I wouldn't say they are that similar, but maybe I'm weird. They'll both get you huffy puffy.

I suppose how you compare and find them will depend a little on how you do your snatch test - I generally never set down the bell for the snatch test. For Grace (if memory serves me right - it's been probably a dozen years...), I think I did it 5-10 reps a shot.
 
At 64%, my bet is you'll find grace more tolerable than snatch test. Your technique is in point so you'll probable be able to cycle it pretty efficiently. Murph may be the bigger challenge. It's just a grind.
 
Never done it but one thing I immediately thought of was that the snatch is one smooth (-ish in my case) movement. The clean and jerk is actually two so you are doing 30 cleans and 30 jerks.
 
Try 6 rounds of 5 on the :90 or 2;00 for a heat check.
Have not done the Grace WOD, but have done the Randy WOD, 75 BB power snatches with #75 for time.
Guessing the SF snatch test is easy for you, probably a medium smoke level, Grace will be similar.
 
Boris Bachmann said:
I've done both and no, I wouldn't say they are that similar, but maybe I'm weird. They'll both get you huffy puffy.

I suppose how you compare and find them will depend a little on how you do your snatch test - I generally never set down the bell for the snatch test. For Grace (if memory serves me right - it's been probably a dozen years...), I think I did it 5-10 reps a shot.
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Ooh good to hear from someone who has done both.

Looks like the weight ratio is about the same:
Women: 16 kg x 100 / 43 kg (95 lbs) x 30 = 1,600 /1,290 = 1.24
Men: 24 kg x 100 / 61 kg (135 lbs) x 30 = 2,400 / 1,830 = 1.3

I generally don't set the kettlebell down for the snatch test, but yes the rest between reps will make a difference.

I've always been a natural at pacing myself for efforts like this. I can tell exactly how much lactate buildup I can have at a max pace without going too far in the red where I have to slow down. Probably from cycling, it's just second nature.

But yeah, even 5 C&J reps gets me huffy puffy last time I did them and that was at 33.5 kg... so I imagine it will be quite an effort!
 
Nate said:
At 64%, my bet is you'll find grace more tolerable than snatch test. Your technique is in point so you'll probable be able to cycle it pretty efficiently. Murph may be the bigger challenge. It's just a grind.
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I'll have to get that "barbell cycling" type technique figured out. But yeah hopefully I can be efficient.

Murph will indeed be a bigger challenge. Definitely a grind. I'll pace myself on that one, too. At least it's not a weighted vest version.
 
Don Fairbanks said:
Try 6 rounds of 5 on the :90 or 2;00 for a heat check.
Have not done the Grace WOD, but have done the Randy WOD, 75 BB power snatches with #75 for time.
Guessing the SF snatch test is easy for you, probably a medium smoke level, Grace will be similar.
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Good idea, I'll probably do that when I get into training for it.

That's what I'm hoping... a medium smoke level. At least it's relatively short duration like the snatch test, so unless I get really overcooked, I should be fine and fresh 15 minutes later.
 
If you aren’t regularly barbell cycling, I would do singles. You’re gonna tear up your fingers and lose time with barbell cycling in the workout. Even if you get good at it, if you can dump from overhead (nobody else around during the heat) you will save a lot of energy.
 
BrianCF said:
Good luck Anna, that many reps that fast seems like an injury weighting to happen.
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If she's using only 64% 1RM it shouldn't be a problem. People act like doing high rep Olympic lifting will open a wormhole into another space-time continuum. It won't, provided the prescribed weight is relatively light and you're not a beginner. The only downside to high rep Olympic lifts is that it could mess with technique.
 
BrianCF said:
Good luck Anna, that many reps that fast seems like an injury weighting to happen.
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Nah, it's not that bad. I've done the men's version (135 lbs / 60 kg) -- the use of the big fat black Hi Temp / Crossfit bumpers (instead of weightlifting bumpers) lets you use the floor rebound on each clean to reduce the work, and when you come down from the jerk, you actually throw it into the floor a bit to get more conservation of kinetic energy.

And it's so light you can practically muscle clean it.

It does feel sort of pointless though when you're done.
 
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As a former okay crossfitter - Grace is one of those workouts that looks easy on the outside, is horrible while you're doing it, and after you're done you'll have known you could've gone faster.

If you cannot do it all unbroken, the next best thing is to NOT try to go unbroken as long as you can. In that regard, it's almost like the snatch test. If you bury yourself into a hole too deep that you can't climb out of fast enough, your time will dramatically suffer.

Watchnerd's strategy is really good - force yourself to maintain at least a minimum RPM & you will finish pretty quickly. As you get better in practice you can push that RPM.

If you're good at barbell cycling, grace is a bit similar to the snatch test but it hurts more if you're fast enough. Unless you're doing the snatch test in like 3:20 or something, then that is ungodly painful lol.

Also for what it's worth - crossfitters that are good do A LOT of cardio not in metcons. I used to run, row & bike for sometimes more than an hour.
 
Comrademode said:
As a former okay crossfitter - Grace is one of those workouts that looks easy on the outside, is horrible while you're doing it, and after you're done you'll have known you could've gone faster.

If you cannot do it all unbroken, the next best thing is to NOT try to go unbroken as long as you can. In that regard, it's almost like the snatch test. If you bury yourself into a hole too deep that you can't climb out of fast enough, your time will dramatically suffer.

Watchnerd's strategy is really good - force yourself to maintain at least a minimum RPM & you will finish pretty quickly. As you get better in practice you can push that RPM.

If you're good at barbell cycling, grace is a bit similar to the snatch test but it hurts more if you're fast enough. Unless you're doing the snatch test in like 3:20 or something, then that is ungodly painful lol.

Also for what it's worth - crossfitters that are good do A LOT of cardio not in metcons. I used to run, row & bike for sometimes more than an hour.
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Good insight, thank you! Yeah I think my cycling (bike riding) cardio will help a lot -- it always seemed to help with snatch tests. Though some glycolytic peaking in the 2 weeks before really gives the cardio a turbo boost.

The weight is interesting -- it's quite moderate. Not "light". But not heavy. I suspect the average 54 yr old woman may have trouble with it, but I'm not average. I'm sure it will still be a work capacity challenge, but at least the weight is not intimidating.

Examples of my current C&J technique in this thread, in case it's insightful. I don't think I'll have that "looking for vertical" problem with 43 kg, plus, I'll probably do power jerks / push jerks. Not sure yet on that. I'll have to try a few sessions with high reps and see how it goes.
 
Anna C said:
Good insight, thank you! Yeah I think my cycling (bike riding) cardio will help a lot -- it always seemed to help with snatch tests. Though some glycolytic peaking in the 2 weeks before really gives the cardio a turbo boost.

The weight is interesting -- it's quite moderate. Not "light". But not heavy. I suspect the average 54 yr old woman may have trouble with it, but I'm not average. I'm sure it will still be a work capacity challenge, but at least the weight is not intimidating.

Examples of my current C&J technique in this thread, in case it's insightful. I don't think I'll have that "looking for vertical" problem with 43 kg, plus, I'll probably do power jerks / push jerks. Not sure yet on that. I'll have to try a few sessions with high reps and see how it goes.
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I highly recommend looking into barbell cycling. It'll feel weird & may slightly mess with your technique for a bit but it'll make the process of this workout a lot less painful. Resetting for every people is awful & very energy taxing.

Well the workout as a whole is awful & energy taxing but you can make it less so!

A dry run may be a good idea just to get a feeling & to benchmark
 
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