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Old Forum Kettlebell Strong or Barbell Strong

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So, I found an empty platform and started testing the waters. The result? I hit a lifetime PR of 200lbs with the power clean (finished with minimal dip into the catch/rack – no front squat, 225lbs, maybe more,  is very possible). At a weight of 205lbs. At the age of 33. On a whim.  No specific training. No barbells for over a decade. Just KB’s. Heavy double KB’s, SFG/RKC principles and Geoff Neupert’s programs as of late (from More KB MuscleKB Express UltraKB Strong is next up).
I cleaned my bodyweight too without any specific training. I started with calisthenics (high rep, military style...did not have any resources when I was 13) and then went to barbell training.
Daniel, please stop asking questions – pick a program and follow it.  At your stage of things, you have plenty of room for progress with any program – pick a tried and tested program, follow it until you plateau.  I mean no disrespect to my fellow participants in this thread, but the entire discussion is beside the point.
Questions are good. While a person in the beginning can generally do almost anything and get results (magazine bodybuilding program, Crossfit at its worst, etc), that doesn't mean one should do it. There is a lot of misinformation and confusion out there, and asking questions is one way to get information. Delaying any training at all until one has the 'perfect' answer is to be avoided of course, but the OP is doing things now, so I do not think that is a danger.
The specific program doesn’t matter, that you follow a proven program does.
The specific program does matter, because adaptation is specific to the imposed demands.

Programs should be evaluated for the specific results they will give.

 

 
 
I've gotten stronger lifting my body weight, kbs, big rocks, other people (underrated), bbells, big water containers... seeing carryover with every one of these. It really doesn't matter that much--just make it progressive.
 
If your goal is to be super strong, the best is :

Kettlebells + Barbells + Bodyweight + Suspension training.

 
 
Daniel,

I agree with Steve.  You're thinking there is a program out there that will increase strength in ALL the lifts you mention, while also dramatically changing body comp in two ways (muscle gain and fat loss).  A good program does have carry over into multiple adaptations BUT there is one focus, one goal.

SO;

1.  In THREE words what is your current goal?
 
Is your goal 2 bodyweight one leg squat/ pistol ?

No upper body goal ?

Today, are you doing back squats ( 2 legs ) with 2  x bodyweight ?

 

 

 
 
To do two bodyweight One Legged Squats.
Then, assuming you are not overweight and you are able to do a bodyweight full squat without mobility issues, then this goal is very reasonable. All it takes is some practice and effort.

I would recommend you focus on that first, and it is not a matter of any sort of bell training.

I would recommend you do pullups and a push of your choice at least.
 
There is a tremendous amount of information and knowledge on these forums and I know this because I take the time to read and reread so I dont need to make endless threads. I understand questions are good and this is a free forum and we dont have stickies YET but think I hear what Steve was hinting at. There is far too many threads asking the same questions over and over, read previous posts and more importantly put some hard work and dedication in with any of the suggested programs. There is no secret program, it doesnt matter if you use kettlebells or barbells you train smart and put time in your gunna gets results.
 
Herrmannelig, I get it man you like calisthetics! Thats great but you come off so biased in these threads I can barely read througb some of your ego driven posts. Which sucks because you appear to be a very smart dude, Im not attacking you and will not respond mainly because I look forward to reading here everday and dont wanna turn this in to a flame war.
 
Daniel,

excellent goal, that'll keep you busy awhile and provide awesome rewards.  Now all you have to do is pick a proven program for the template to reach that destination, something that plainly lays out proven progressions. Those programs have been discussed often in numerous threads so like Steve said pick one and work it to the letter and the results will follow.  "The best" program is the one we choose to follow exactly as written.
 
+1 to ending barbell v. kettlebell v. calisthenics "best" debate.

The same principles are involved in all three, focusing on those principles to consciously move stronger and with increasing amounts of tension is the goal.  Pick a modality and stick with it until you get the significant results others are getting, then switch practices once another modality based on the same principles of strength becomes more appealing and enjoyable.  Learning how to see a goal through to it's end and consciously using the principles of strength in our bodies is the reason behind all of us writing here.
 
Herrmannelig, I get it man you like calisthetics! Thats great but you come off so biased in these threads I can barely read througb some of your ego driven posts.
My posts are not ego driven. I have nothing to gain or lose. I am merely participating on a forum.

The OP's main goal is about calisthenics as well.
Which sucks because you appear to be a very smart dude,
Thank you.
Im not attacking you and will not respond mainly because I look forward to reading here everday and dont wanna turn this in to a flame war.
You are probably right. I check this forum when I have nothing else to do, and in that kind of state, I am more prone to relax my mind and post more freely.

I'll try to be more mindful of what I am doing.
 
There is an expression: Can't see the forest for the trees.  It means that sometimes we get too focused on the individual items - the trees - and lose sight of the big picture.

The OP in this case sounds overwhelmed with the choices, and he has room to make progress in many areas.  The important thing is that he follow a proven strength program.  If he does, he will make plenty of non-specific progress, e.g., a simple example from my own training - my bodyweight max pullups reps went from 2 to 12 without any pullup training, simply because I'd followed the Power To The People! program and gotten stronger.  This is the so-called "what the heck" effect and, for someone who is far from their potential, it's very real, and it's wonderful, and to be enjoyed.

-S-
 
There's a lot of different ways to do things.  Most of the statements quoted about kettlebells in the original thread are false; for instance, I have had great carryover from kettlebells to deadlifts, and have seen it in pretty much everyone I've trained who has done both movements.

One thing I want to mention that wasn't brought up so far; while strength is certainly helpful for fighting, like any sport, there is such a thing as specificity.  If you do not train to fight, and practice against resisting opponents, you will not come off well against anyone who knows what they are doing. I have competed in san shou/san da/lei tai (all of which are basically kickboxing with throws, or mma without grappling if you will), judo, and bjj.  In all of them, I have gotten my butt thoroughly kicked by people who were not nearly as strong as me, as measured by the standard barbell and kettlebell lifts; in some cases they were significantly lighter than me as well. When I put less time into strength training and more into practice of martial arts, voila, I got better at martial arts.

Strength is certainly a very useful attribute in fighting, and helps in a number of ways, but don't expect it to be the be all and end all and answer to everything. As Pavel and Dan John have said over and over in a variety of ways, most of your time should be spent practicing your sport, if you really want to get better. If your sport is not lifting...
 
The principles of bodyweight/suspension are not the same as kettlebell/barbell.

One is anterior dominant the other is posterior.

Do both and have balanced strength.

Train the front lever and pick up something heavy using posterior muscle.  If your back is sore you are doing it wrong.

For lifting, barbell has a lot of advantages over KBs.   The only thing you can do with a KB that you can't do with a barbell is overspeed eccentric on ballistics which is very low on the scale of strength priorities.

What about high rep swings?  Go put 135# on a barbell and do 3-5 quick DL sets of 25.

You can do any KB lift under the sun with a barbell.   Plus you can zercher with a barbell.  You can deadlift heavy with a barbell.  You can change weights with a barbell without spending $100.

That said, KBs are still very awesome.
 
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