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Kettlebell Kettlebell Swing EDT?

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watchnerd

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I’ve enjoyed the EDT element of DFW and Giant.

I’d be interested to hear the thoughts of others about applying EDT programming to swings?
 
A lot of the original ballistic programming was either density based (S&S 1 and ROTK pressing were focused on cutting rest periods over time) or even escalating density based (ballistic portions in ETK/RoP and also KB WOD).

So on the one hand, it worked. But on the other hand, SF has evolved more towards AGT protocols and density is only used in glycolitic peaking and hypertrophy plans. So I guess it would be great for a bus bench plan.
 
A lot of the original ballistic programming was either density based (S&S 1 and ROTK pressing were focused on cutting rest periods over time) or even escalating density based (ballistic portions in ETK/RoP and also KB WOD).

So on the one hand, it worked. But on the other hand, SF has evolved more towards AGT protocols and density is only used in glycolitic peaking and hypertrophy plans. So I guess it would be great for a bus bench plan.

Well, this would be for off-season hypertrophy / conditioning.
 
Well, this would be for off-season hypertrophy / conditioning.
Thinking about it, it could be a rather oldschool tactic of milking your available bells. First you get strong, then you get the volume and own the bell... increase density and then go for escalating density for hypertrophy before tackling the next bell. I like the idea!

Maybe as supersets (Swing sandwich style) for 20-30 minutes.
 
As the rest periods in S&S organically decrease, does that not increase the density?

Kind of, but it doesn’t escalate beyond 100 swings and has no upper bound on time.

And frequency wouldn’t be daily in EDT.
 
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Thinking about it, it could be a rather oldschool tactic of milking your available bells. First you get strong, then you get the volume and own the bell... increase density and then go for escalating density for hypertrophy before tackling the next bell. I like the idea!

Maybe as supersets (Swing sandwich style) for 20-30 minutes.

That was my thinking.

How many sets of X swings can I do in 20 min?

Sets of 10 would be the starting assumption, but maybe it needn’t be.

4-6 weeks. I’ll probably try it for 5 weeks.
 
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That was my thinking.

How many sets of X swings can I do in 20 min?

Sets of 10 would be the starting assumption, but maybe it needn’t be.

4-6 weeks. I’ll probably try it for 5 weeks.
I'd be interested in the results :)

Would you do 2-3 similar sessions per week? Or vary the weight, session length, swing style, or rep scheme?
 
I don't think EDT and AGT is mutually exclusive... one would naturally begin to get more sets in the same frame following an AGT format.
You could do this in a "park bench" (autoregulation format)" or more bus bench, which could possibly deviate farther from an AGT style.
 
I'd be interested in the results :)

Would you do 2-3 similar sessions per week? Or vary the weight, session length, swing style, or rep scheme?

2-3 per week, depending if I interleave C&P as a 'B' workout.

I have doubles running from 8-32 kg, and singles from 36-40 kg, so I have a lot of weight variables I can play with.

I'd probably keep the session length constant, just for reasons of habit, and play with the reps per set and/or weight to wave the tonnage.

As for style, I'd personally pick with 2H or 2x1H (double swings).
 
I don't think EDT and AGT is mutually exclusive... one would naturally begin to get more sets in the same frame following an AGT format.
You could do this in a "park bench" (autoregulation format)" or more bus bench, which could possibly deviate farther from an AGT style.

I agree.

Although I'm not following your thoughts on getting more sets in the same time frame following an AGT format.

Or, for that matter, what an AGT format is, other than 'the talk test'.
 
AGT (to me; maybe my interpretation is slightly off) is minimizing glycolysis. As one gains "fitness", recovery happens faster, therefore X sets in 10 minutes becomes X + y sets in 10 minutes, still following AGT principles of adequate rest to maintain output.
 
AGT (to me; maybe my interpretation is slightly off) is minimizing glycolysis. As one gains "fitness", recovery happens faster, therefore X sets in 10 minutes becomes X + y sets in 10 minutes, still following AGT principles of adequate rest to maintain output.

Now I understand what you meant.

But even after your fitness has improved via the scheme you outline above, one can always tap into glycolitic energy systems to get more work done in a given amount of time if one is willing to go 'full metcon'.

I'm not saying one should train that way regularly, because of the burn out effects and hormonal impact.

I only do it in competition, particularly if I'm at a small attendee meet and have to 'follow myself' on the platform with insufficient rest.
 
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@watchnerd totally get one you're saying. I actually really like @Bauer 's idea of an EDT like program with your S&S, A+A or whatever bell before belling up and going full rest again. Geoff Neupert's older programs ("One" comes to mind) could work; if I'm not mistaken, he's said that those programs still deliver but he wouldn't run them all the time anymore, rather periodically with the rest of training being more AGT
 
@watchnerd totally get one you're saying. I actually really like @Bauer 's idea of an EDT like program with your S&S, A+A or whatever bell before belling up and going full rest again. Geoff Neupert's older programs ("One" comes to mind) could work; if I'm not mistaken, he's said that those programs still deliver but he wouldn't run them all the time anymore, rather periodically with the rest of training being more AGT

I think you can escalate density / sets over time and still stay within the AGT window, up to a point, if you're not trying to rush the process.

I just finished Giant (plus 1 bonus week) was able to add about 1-2 sets more per week, using a 20 min window, with no change in the talk test.
 
Geoff Neupert has a few edt swing programs called swing season, at the opening of his Kettlebell express series.

I did one, and ended up botching it a bit at the end because I was not faithful with my stretching and whatnot and tweaked my back (my fault), but it definitely left a mark and rapidly increased my strength and swing capacity. I was pretty bummed because one week before the end i felt so strong.

I was getting scared for workout days by the time I was halfway through, but it certainly delivered as promised. Start lighter than you think haha.
 
Btw @watcherd: In KB WOD (by Geoff Neupert) the swing density sessions are usually 15 minute windows.

You could also roll four dice to determine session length: The range would be 4-24, but the average would be 14 minutes and most sessions would last 10-18 minutes.

DicePlots_770.gif

Source:
 
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Btw @watcherd: In KB WOD (by Geoff Neupert) the swing density sessions are usually 15 minute windows.

You could also roll four dice to determine session length: The range would be 4-24, but the average would be 14 minutes and most sessions would last 10-18 minutes.

DicePlots_770.gif

Source:

In a shorter block, like the 5 weeks I'm planning, I probably wouldn't use randomized time, as the chance of getting a randomized skew that deviates the statistically normal distribution increases with smaller number of sessions.
 
i saw a notable SF guy post a progression that uses ladders that wave & becomes more dense (same reps in less sets). same total reps: 30-60; or double each ladder reps for 60-120 for swings etc. Kind of interesting.
5*123
6*123
7*123
8*123
9*123
10*123
3*235
4*235
5*235
6*235
2*357
3*357
4*357
 
i saw a notable SF guy post a progression that uses ladders that wave & becomes more dense (same reps in less sets). same total reps: 30-60; or double each ladder reps for 60-120 for swings etc. Kind of interesting.
5*123
6*123
7*123
8*123
9*123
10*123
3*235
4*235
5*235
6*235
2*357
3*357
4*357

I must be misunderstanding something.

Does that first ladder start with 1 swing?
 
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