Other/Mixed Kettlebell Training Post Knee Replacement Surgery

[Kathleen Chandler]

Hi There-

For those of you who have had a total knee replacement or who train students with knee replacements: Which kettlebell lifts, if any, are no longer doable? How do swings feel? Are you able (after some recovery time of course) to train with the same load as before? How is crawling? I would appreciate any information you have to share. Thanks,

 

[Steve W.]

@Rif ?

 

[wespom9]

One of my roles at my day job is assisting a physio with a post-knee replacement group class. I also run an "advanced" class for those who are 2-3 months post, have ROM and basic strength but still want to improve. Also, my wife has had one due to her condition of juvenile RA. So I have some experience!
- Most people find crawling difficult. Even kneeling to some can be tough. Awkward, uncomfortable feeling. An airex pad + pillow can solve this somewhat, but many just avoid
- deadlifts are relatively early on in recovery. Once the client can get to 60-70 degree knee flexion, it's doable. ~1.5 months I'd say.
- Squats are a little later. Start with a "sit to stand" - actually sit in the chair at the bottom - and build up. Just getting the pattern back here is helpful. "train the deadlift, maintain the squat" as they say
- no one I work with stays with me long enough to get to/want to try swings or ballistics, so I can't help you there unfortunately

 

[Kathleen Chandler]

One of my roles at my day job is assisting a physio with a post-knee replacement group class. I also run an "advanced" class for those who are 2-3 months post, have ROM and basic strength but still want to improve. Also, my wife has had one due to her condition of juvenile RA. So I have some experience!
- Most people find crawling difficult. Even kneeling to some can be tough. Awkward, uncomfortable feeling. An airex pad + pillow can solve this somewhat, but many just avoid
- deadlifts are relatively early on in recovery. Once the client can get to 60-70 degree knee flexion, it's doable. ~1.5 months I'd say.
- Squats are a little later. Start with a "sit to stand" - actually sit in the chair at the bottom - and build up. Just getting the pattern back here is helpful. "train the deadlift, maintain the squat" as they say
- no one I work with stays with me long enough to get to/want to try swings or ballistics, so I can't help you there unfortunately

Thanks for your reply! Are the patients you work with able to lock out their knees evenutally?

 

[wespom9]

@Kathleen Chandler it comes down to the first month or so of recovery. working on getting to 0 degrees is part and parcel with regaining flexion capability.
Most who get to 0 through the typical initial rehab phase will be able to lock out (edit: within my experience. I've been off and on with this program for about a year) This is somewhat of a generalization). As soon as they can, follow the FMS pattern of mobility - static stability - dynamic stability - strength. EG, do an exercise that focuses on getting to 0. Then immediately do an exercise that includes that full extension (Static stability - example could be an upper body movement while in standing). Then dynamic stability (deadlift pattern through full existing range) then to deadlift with weight, if possible.

 

[Kathleen Chandler]

@Kathleen Chandler it comes down to the first month or so of recovery. working on getting to 0 degrees is part and parcel with regaining flexion capability.
Most who get to 0 through the typical initial rehab phase will be able to lock out (edit: within my experience. I've been off and on with this program for about a year) This is somewhat of a generalization). As soon as they can, follow the FMS pattern of mobility - static stability - dynamic stability - strength. EG, do an exercise that focuses on getting to 0. Then immediately do an exercise that includes that full extension (Static stability - example could be an upper body movement while in standing). Then dynamic stability (deadlift pattern through full existing range) then to deadlift with weight, if possible.

This is helpful, thanks

 

[SFSparky]

Hi There-

For those of you who have had a total knee replacement or who train students with knee replacements: Which kettlebell lifts, if any, are no longer doable? How do swings feel? Are you able (after some recovery time of course) to train with the same load as before? How is crawling? I would appreciate any information you have to share. Thanks,

Left TKA last July, age 68. While doing all recommended rehab to regain extension, flexion and mobility -- lots of stationary bike and air bike work -- at about 5 weeks out from surgery started doing unweighted TGU to elbow, goblet carries @ 16K, KB military presses @ 20# seated, light 45# bench presses, push-ups. At about 6 weeks, started 2-arm swings at 20K, low reps/sets. Swings felt good but kept intensity low. At ~7 weeks, started Q&D swing/push-up protocol, swings with 24K. By week 9, light goblet squats at 14K in addition to Q&D. Easy mountain biking by week 11. Skied x-country and downhill regularly this past winter building to more or less normal intensity by mid-season. Currently 10 months out, day 41 of S&S @ 20K/24K swings, 14K/16K get-ups. Knee at ~ 85-90% strength. TGUs, predictably, have taken the most time to come back and the new knee still talks to me some, though not in a bad way, during. Have done some crawling, a bit uncomfortable initially when kneeling, better with bear crawls. Biggest lesson for me on all of the above: Ramp up slowly, keep volume and weight low, push a little but listen to the body, back off sooner rather than later. Hope that helps.

 

[Rif]

Hi There-

For those of you who have had a total knee replacement or who train students with knee replacements: Which kettlebell lifts, if any, are no longer doable? How do swings feel? Are you able (after some recovery time of course) to train with the same load as before? How is crawling? I would appreciate any information you have to share. Thanks,

I can do everything I want to. Swing, squat, lunge, crawl, ruck etc. see my response on the other thread

 

[Rif]

I can do everything I want to. Swing, squat, lunge, crawl, ruck etc. see my response on the other thread

 

[Kathleen Chandler]

Left TKA last July, age 68. While doing all recommended rehab to regain extension, flexion and mobility -- lots of stationary bike and air bike work -- at about 5 weeks out from surgery started doing unweighted TGU to elbow, goblet carries @ 16K, KB military presses @ 20# seated, light 45# bench presses, push-ups. At about 6 weeks, started 2-arm swings at 20K, low reps/sets. Swings felt good but kept intensity low. At ~7 weeks, started Q&D swing/push-up protocol, swings with 24K. By week 9, light goblet squats at 14K in addition to Q&D. Easy mountain biking by week 11. Skied x-country and downhill regularly this past winter building to more or less normal intensity by mid-season. Currently 10 months out, day 41 of S&S @ 20K/24K swings, 14K/16K get-ups. Knee at ~ 85-90% strength. TGUs, predictably, have taken the most time to come back and the new knee still talks to me some, though not in a bad way, during. Have done some crawling, a bit uncomfortable initially when kneeling, better with bear crawls. Biggest lesson for me on all of the above: Ramp up slowly, keep volume and weight low, push a little but listen to the body, back off sooner rather than later. Hope that helps.

Very helpful! Thanks

 

[NateAK]

Left TKA last July, age 68. While doing all recommended rehab to regain extension, flexion and mobility -- lots of stationary bike and air bike work -- at about 5 weeks out from surgery started doing unweighted TGU to elbow, goblet carries @ 16K, KB military presses @ 20# seated, light 45# bench presses, push-ups. At about 6 weeks, started 2-arm swings at 20K, low reps/sets. Swings felt good but kept intensity low. At ~7 weeks, started Q&D swing/push-up protocol, swings with 24K. By week 9, light goblet squats at 14K in addition to Q&D. Easy mountain biking by week 11. Skied x-country and downhill regularly this past winter building to more or less normal intensity by mid-season. Currently 10 months out, day 41 of S&S @ 20K/24K swings, 14K/16K get-ups. Knee at ~ 85-90% strength. TGUs, predictably, have taken the most time to come back and the new knee still talks to me some, though not in a bad way, during. Have done some crawling, a bit uncomfortable initially when kneeling, better with bear crawls. Biggest lesson for me on all of the above: Ramp up slowly, keep volume and weight low, push a little but listen to the body, back off sooner rather than later. Hope that helps.

I had bilateral knee replacement November of 2018, age 58 y/o. After I learned to 'walk' again, I started a KB swing only protocol 3 months after surgery. Initially locking my knees out was uncomfortable, but that passed with time. All I did for the next 9 months were KB swings. I started with 18kg and worked my way back to swinging 40kg KB's. If I were to do 1 exercise the rest of my life, I would swing KB's. Fortunately that is not the case, Get ups and Snatches round out my strength practice.

 

[SFSparky]

I had bilateral knee replacement November of 2018, age 58 y/o. After I learned to 'walk' again, I started a KB swing only protocol 3 months after surgery. Initially locking my knees out was uncomfortable, but that passed with time. All I did for the next 9 months were KB swings. I started with 18kg and worked my way back to swinging 40kg KB's. If I were to do 1 exercise the rest of my life, I would swing KB's. Fortunately that is not the case, Get ups and Snatches round out my strength practice.

Good job, @NateAK. You paid your dues and got reimbursed with interest.

 

[Tarzan]

I've never had a TKR but I'm well overdue for one, so I can't contribute anything of value. I'm just curious as to whether the newer prosthetics have replaceable wear pads, so you can have a "service" so to speak rather than having to have the entire procedure re-done?
My old man had a hip replaced about a year ago and it had that capability where they can replace the weight bearing part (on the femoral head) that's designed to wear out before the implanted titanium socket wears out.

 

[Ian V]

I know of two people having knee replacements.
Person 1 my wife age 61 - reason arthritis - and has arthritis everywhere so many limiting factors in her recovery - she has been told to expect that she will never be able to kneel. She will never deadlift or swing a kettlebell - walking without pain is her aim. Surgeon said that this may be at least a year away. She had op in June.
Person 2 a friend age about 58 when he had both knees replaced. Non competitive trainer with a good deadlift. Three years on can only deadlift from a rack just below knee height. Can not kneel and can only squat very light weight and not deep.

 

[SFSparky]

I know of two people having knee replacements.
Person 1 my wife age 61 - reason arthritis - and has arthritis everywhere so many limiting factors in her recovery - she has been told to expect that she will never be able to kneel. She will never deadlift or swing a kettlebell - walking without pain is her aim. Surgeon said that this may be at least a year away. She had op in June.
Person 2 a friend age about 58 when he had both knees replaced. Non competitive trainer with a good deadlift. Three years on can only deadlift from a rack just below knee height. Can not kneel and can only squat very light weight and not deep.

Clearly, there is going to be a wide spectrum of variations in outcomes. When I had my one-year follow-up in July, my surgeon said something like 92% of post-op patients report some level of pain a year or more out. I occasionally have some but it's minor, less frequent and far lower intensity than before surgery. I can deadlift without pain, though kneeling on the affected knee is a bit uncomfortable. Along with strength and aerobic training, I continue to do regular flexion, extension, and mobility exercises. I just finished a 6-week Easy Strength program that included deadlifts and Zercher squats. This is a bit subjective, but my quads, hamstring, and glutes appear to have gained size and strength. At times, it has felt like a long road and not without some speed bumps. Initially, I was happy just to walk, which required a bit of a reboot as the artificial joint slightly increased the length of the affected leg and I had to consciously work on my gait. Currently, I am able to perform all the activities I enjoy, including road and mountain biking, downhill, x-country, and backcountry skiing, hiking, and ping-pong. All in all, I would rate the surgery a strong net positive, though I would note I am but one example.

 

[NateAK]

I've never had a TKR but I'm well overdue for one, so I can't contribute anything of value. I'm just curious as to whether the newer prosthetics have replaceable wear pads, so you can have a "service" so to speak rather than having to have the entire procedure re-done?
My old man had a hip replaced about a year ago and it had that capability where they can replace the weight bearing part (on the femoral head) that's designed to wear out before the implanted titanium socket wears out.

I was told it will outlast me...