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Kettlebell Kettlebell weight progression for beginners

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Chrisdavisjr

Chrisdavisjr

Level 7 Valued Member
Hello everyone!

I'm new to kettlebells training, having recently acquired a 16kg KB as well as copies of both S&S and ETK. I've started following the S&S programme using my 16kg KB and am already making progress, however I am unsure as to what weight of KB I should be moving up to once I'm ready to move beyond the 16kg KB.

S&S recommends jumping up to a 24kg KB, which follows the logic that greater stimulation for neuromuscular adaptation is facilitated when faced with a sudden and significant weight increase however, as I am quite a small guy (I weigh around 144lbs/65kg at 5'9") and would be required to perform an SFG snatch test with a 20kg KB (as per the SFG 2017 testing standards), do you think it would be worth moving up to a 20kg first?
 
Hello,

@Chrisdavisjr
Welcome on StrongFirst !

Chrisdavisjr said:
I weigh around 144lbs/65kg at 5'9"
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I am even lighter, but slightly taller (6'00'').

Chrisdavisjr said:
S&S recommends jumping up to a 24kg KB
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Lots of people here are a bit heavier than we are. Most of them have no real issue doing these big jumps.

S&S is based on two moves that obey by rules slightly differents. Progressions can be different on these two moves.

Skinny people often progress pretty well on swings. Thus, it is possible to go for big jumps with them. You will simply have to introduce them progressively (first 1 or 2 2H sets, then, 3 and so on). This is how I did to get 40.

Related to the GUs, I am clearly unable to do big jumps. I started at 20 and did 4kg jumps until 38. Each time I wanted to test a 8kg...I lost balance and lost control of the bell so...

Of course, there is no general rule. This is my own experience : experience of a skinny guy. On other threads, we talked about bodyweight and progression for swings and GUs. It effectively seemed that skinny people are more "swing oriented" and heavy people are more "GU oriented". However, with dedication and patience, there is no doubt that even a skinny person can reach a GU @40 or even more.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Chrisdavisjr said:
I am quite a small guy (I weigh around 144lbs/65kg at 5'9") and would be required to perform an SFG snatch test with a 20kg KB (as per the SFG 2017 testing standards), do you think it would be worth moving up to a 20kg first?
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I'd recommend you work with a 24Kg snatch test as your goal.
You are just starting your journey with KBs and although both programs are not specifically designed to produce hypertrophy, most of us who hit the S&S standards with somewhere between 24 & 32 and/or completed a cycle of ETK with the 24 put on some mass as a side effect.
A couple of weeks down the road you'll step on the scale and see that you accidentally put on those extra 3Kg and suddenly you'll have to snatch the 24. IMO it's better to err on the heavier side.
 
Hello,

@Chrisdavisjr
As @Kettlebelephant said, ETK and S&S are different stories and I agree with him with the snatch @24. This is a ballistic move (such is the swing) then, working on 24 instead of 20 is perfectly conceivable. Most of the time, grinds are more difficult for skinny people than ballistics.

However, be careful. Running S&S and a training for the snatch test can a taxing, above all if you start from scratch. Then, what would be your goal ? S&S ? Snatch test ? To a certain extent, a very good (and heavy) swing training will help you a lot for the latter.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Regarding the Snatch test:
Before I started my current routine I did the snatch test just to see how I would do. Before that I had never done it.
At the time I hit the S&S time standards with the 36 and I was already working a bit with the 40 and simultaneously practicing the snatch (nothing taxing, just a couple of sets of 3s or 5s, aiming to improve form).
I used Dan John's recommendation of 20/15/10/5 (per hand) and had no problem to get 100 snatches in 5min.
---> S&S beyond the Simple standard prepares you very well for the snatch test.

Regarding the next KB:
It all depends on what you want to do in the future.
Both programs are doable with only a 16, 24 & 32 (& 40 & 48 if you want to go that far). There will be times when the 8Kg jumps will feel too heavy, but with some special progession tactics they will be doable. You can find a lot of those tactics here in the forum and people will help you out if you ask.
4Kg jumps are definitely easier. IMO they feel very smooth and natural. As I said the 8Kg jumps on the other hand can be very rough. There are benefits in both ways.
Back to the things you want to do in the future. I, for example, bought the KBs in 4Kg jumps, because I own a lot of KB programs that I want to run in the future (e.g. KB Burn 2.0, KB Domination, KB Express Reloaded, etc.) and you need a bigger variety of KBs to effectively run them.
If you say "I want to do S&S until Simple and then ETK until 1/2BW press (for you the 32)" and then move away from KBs or just occasionally use them, a set of 16, 24 & 32 will be enough.
If you plan to keep using them for a greater variety of programs, go with 4Kg jumps and more KBs.
 
Welcome to StrongFirst, @Chrisdavisjr!

First of all, could we have some more informations about your training history?

With the informations you have given us, I'd say go straight to the 24 kg. For people with body types similar to yours, it shouldn't be a problem making the direct jump: 24 kg is by all means a respectable weight, but it's really doable. The adaptation is harder when going from 24 to 32 kg (at least in my experience), and you'll already be doing half bodyweight drills at that point, but 24 is not that hard to menage, I would say.

I have a question, though: why do you mention the snatch test? Are you planning on attending and succesfully completing an SFG certification? Is it just a goal of yours?

I ask that because you seem pretty informed about it, and if you'd like to get certified, than maybe you could put your time in something more speficic than Simple&Sinister, also because there are other standards to meet. If, instead, you'd like to pass a StrongFirst snatch test for your personal satisfaction, then I would consider doing this after having layed a solid base with Simple&Sinister, some solid snatch practice and some pressing with the weight you're supposed to perform the test with... Even though the Simple standard at your bodyweight will deliver much of what you'd need (not everything, though).

Third case: are you considering the snatch test as a standard of quality? While this might be true to some extent, it's till not the only way to judge a girevik or not even how well or bad you're training (although, if you could pass the test, you would definitely be no joke).
 
you can use the 24..

remember, you do not have to test the time standards each session.. the goal is to let your conditioning levels increase as you keep accumulating practice sessions..


I can also say that as long as you practice your snatch technique, when you attain the simple standard, a 20kg snatch test is in the bag..

p.s. also a light guy here, weighing anywhere from 145-148
 
I advocate for building additional volume at a weight prior to moving up. Work up to the 10,000 swing program with 1/1x TGU between swing sets. Then, a big weight jump for S&S volume will not be difficult.
 
Thanks for the welcomes and recommendations! It definitely looks like I should bite the bullet and get myself a 24kg. I'll let you all know how it works out.

Frank, in answer to your question regarding my training history, I've been into keeping fit with bodyweight exercise for several years but only really began to take it seriously in the last three or so years.

Pavel's 'The Naked Warrior' along with Paul Wade's 'Convict Conditioning' inspired me to take my training a little more seriously without having to join a gym (I'm not really into commercial gyms, at least not the ones in my immediate vicinity) and I was then drawn towards kettlebell training as a similarly minimalist approach to strength and conditioning.

I've recently qualified as a personal trainer and am looking, at some point, to becoming a certified KB instructor so the snatch test is definitely a long-term goal, along with mastery of the C&P, snatch, squat etc.

I seem to have a very short attention span when it comes to training methods and routines so S&S is looking to be the perfect solution to ensure that, no matter whatever other forms of training I'm experimenting with at the time (or if work gets a little hectic and available training time is significantly reduced) I'll still have a solid, minimal basic routine to ensure that I stay in good physical condition. If I have time in my sessions, I'll practice cleans, presses and snatches along with the swing and get-up.
 
Hello,

@Chrisdavisjr
As already mentioned, the 10000 swings challenge is one of the best minimalistic conditioning program ever. I did it a while ago. Even if I am skinny, I lost weight (3kg...) while doing it. This volume is that significant that a snatch test will be super easy doing it.

Here is the link of the challenge:
The 10,000 Swing Kettlebell Workout | T Nation

It builds a huge working capacity.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Thanks, Pet': That looks brutal! Dan John is a monster (and I mean that in the best possible way). I look forward to trying this out.
 
Hello,

@chrisdavisj
This is a very good and minimalistic cardio program, very easy to follow.

However, it is pretty demanding and has to be done as a stand alone program. It requires a good swing technique due to the volume.

You can adapt it in function of your need, in function of what you want or in function of how you like to train
>MAF pace
>as fast as possible

Keep swinging ! ;)

Kind regards

Pet'
 
Chrisdavisjr said:
Thanks for the welcomes and recommendations! It definitely looks like I should bite the bullet and get myself a 24kg. I'll let you all know how it works out.

Frank, in answer to your question regarding my training history, I've been into keeping fit with bodyweight exercise for several years but only really began to take it seriously in the last three or so years.

Pavel's 'The Naked Warrior' along with Paul Wade's 'Convict Conditioning' inspired me to take my training a little more seriously without having to join a gym (I'm not really into commercial gyms, at least not the ones in my immediate vicinity) and I was then drawn towards kettlebell training as a similarly minimalist approach to strength and conditioning.

I've recently qualified as a personal trainer and am looking, at some point, to becoming a certified KB instructor so the snatch test is definitely a long-term goal, along with mastery of the C&P, snatch, squat etc.

I seem to have a very short attention span when it comes to training methods and routines so S&S is looking to be the perfect solution to ensure that, no matter whatever other forms of training I'm experimenting with at the time (or if work gets a little hectic and available training time is significantly reduced) I'll still have a solid, minimal basic routine to ensure that I stay in good physical condition. If I have time in my sessions, I'll practice cleans, presses and snatches along with the swing and get-up.
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Ok, than you definitely know what to do better than me, sorry! :D

The advice I can give you is to either follow S&S until Simple or do what @Bro Mo and @pet' said, the 10000 swings program. I can tell you from my own experience that, if you've never touched a kettlebell or are still unfamiliar, S&S delivers fantastic results and has carry overs to the remaining 4 basic exercises (clean, snatch, squat and overhead press). I haven't had the pleasure to do Dan Jon's program, but it has a history of success too, so I think you really can't go wrong!

Do you know any SFG in your proximity? It could be a wise idea to have a talk between profesionals and set something productive, yes?
 
Hello,

Basically, if pure conditioning and "work capacity" are the goals, then 10000 swing might be the right choice. Nonetheless, if a perfect balance between strength and conditioning (with lots of carryover on every other moves) are the goals, then S&S might be the right choice.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Getting to 1/3 your bodyweight in S&S is about as much as you need for overall strength and fitness, so the 24 for someone about 3 times as much is a pretty good goal. Once you get there it might seem a bit easy after a while and you may then want to move up to 32.

Regarding the 10,000 swings thing - that's way more exercise than S&S, WAY MORE. So, if you can handle that, then it's going to be better, obviously!!! It looks like way too much for me though!
 
Frank_IT said:
Ok, than you definitely know what to do better than me, sorry! :D
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No worries, man! It looks like the closest certified SFG instructors to me are all in London, which isn't a long way to go for me (I'm currently based in South East England). It'd be well worth me booking a session or two to get some cues on my form.

I'm going to work through S&S until I'm totally comfortable with my swing (and my new 24kg kettlebell, which I shall be ordering first thing tomorrow!) and then I'll give the 10,000 swings a try. I'll probably log my progress here on the forum once I get started.

Thanks again for all of your advice, everyone!
 
If the 10,000 swing thing is done two handed then I honestly don't see the point of achieving S&S' "simple" first. You can just jump into the 10,000 swings, carefully of course, with safety precautions all sorted out beforehand.

While I'm not going to do something as intense as that 10,000 swings thing, for a normal human like myself, I think it has given me some ideas. I might programme 100 or more 2 handed swings into my daily workout with the same weight I'm doing S&S at. I know from experience that 2h swings don't tire out my S&S muscles, (whereas cleans and presses DO tire them out, as do snatches and pushups) yet they're amazing for all-body exercise and cardio strength, if done enough times, kind of like running is.
 
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24kg.

If you can swing 24kg, 20kg snatch test will be easier to conquer, given snatch test is a quest.

Most of my students are sub 70kg yet use 24kg from time to time.
 
Hello,

Recently, I did the snatch test to see how it goes. I use daily heavy swings (40). The snatch test @20 was pretty "easy". I chose the 20 bell because I weigh 62. I think 24 could be achievable with a few work. However I get two blisters hehe.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I see it all as a matter of budgets. If your budget only allows for buying one kettlebell for now, I would get the 24kg and follow S&S with 16kg for the get ups and 24kg for the one arm swings. The jump for the get up may be a bit much from 16kg to 24kg so a 20kg would be a good inbetweener. You may want to consider buying a 20kg as well because at some point in the future it will be useful to you but as I mentioned above its all about a budget. When you get to the clean and press the 20kg may be vital as the 16kg could be too light and the 24kg too heavy.

If you are building a garage gym and intend to become an SFG and take on students in your space, you will likely need a 20kg anyway.
 
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