Kettlebell Kettlebells and Gridiron?

[NormanOsborn]

Does anyone know if any NFL team use Kettlebells as part of their Strength and Conditioning programs? As a Brit, my knowledge of Gridiron is limited to watching games on TV, but I would think the Swing would have particular relevance for positions where players have to explode from a crouched position.

 

[Aaron17]

I don't think it's a widespread tool.

From what I understand most football coaches favour the barbell for developing their players. Bench, squats and power cleans are the predominant tools used in college and in the pro ranks.

That is having at one stage trained with an ex Steeler and NFL Europe player

I should note this was 10 years ago so maybe things changed..

 

[Nate]

I doubt any use it exclusively, but do as one of many tools.
An NFL Strength Coach, the Kettlebell, and Elite Athletes | StrongFirst

Colts trading bench presses for Turkish getups

ANDERSON – It’s called a Turkish getup. And if you’ve never heard of it, then you and Indianapolis Colts defensive end Kendall Langford have something in common.

www.indystar.com

 

[watchnerd]

Does anyone know if any NFL team use Kettlebells as part of their Strength and Conditioning programs? As a Brit, my knowledge of Gridiron is limited to watching games on TV, but I would think the Swing would have particular relevance for positions where players have to explode from a crouched position.

Bret Contreras made some allusion to NFL players should try super heavy KB swings for the same logic reason.

As a former football player (high school, Div. 1 NCAA) I would say that by the time a player gets to the NFL, a lot of the S&C work is maintenance mode for current strength levels / injury prevention. The physical "base building" years are much younger and high school seniors these days have gym numbers, size, and body weight comparable to what 4th year university kids had when I was playing.

In other words, NFL draftees are expected to already have the majority of their basic S&C done already -- that's why there is so much emphasis on things like the Combine (and it makes good tv).

The skill elements, tactics, strategy, learning more complex plays, and learning how to handle the higher level of competition tends to take up more time, with far less time going to S&C.

Or to put it differently:

As a center, by the time I was playing in college, I was expected to spend a lot more time practicing, learning plays, and less time in the weight room, as compared to when I was a teen.

Switching offensive lineman from, say, power cleans to heavy KB swings probably won't make that much of a difference to on-field performance or the win/loss record.

 

[NormanOsborn]

Bret Contreras made some allusion to NFL players should try super heavy KB swings for the same logic reason.

As a former football player (high school, Div. 1 NCAA) I would say that by the time a player get to the NFL, a lot of the S&C work is maintenance mode for current strength levels / injury prevention. The physical "base building" years are much younger and high school seniors these days have gym numbers, size, and body weight comparable to what 4th year university kids had when I was playing.

In other words, NFL draftees are expected to already have the majority of their basic S&C done already -- that's why there is so much emphasis on things like the Combine (and it makes good tv).

The skill elements, tactics, strategy, learning more complex plays, and learning how to handle the higher level of competition tends to take up more time, with far less time going to S&C.

Or to put differently:

As a center, by the time I was playing in college, I was expected to spend a lot more time practicing, learning plays, and less time in the weight room, as compared to when I was a teen.

Switching offensive lineman from, say, power cleans to heavy KB swings probably won't make that much of a difference to on-field performance or the win/loss record.

Thanks for the reply. That's very interesting.

 

[watchnerd]

Thanks for the reply. That's very interesting.

It will also vary a lot by position.

As a center, I was on the line (thus a "crouched position"), whereas man in motion positions don't start the play from the same stance.

Also, as a center, one has to learn more plays than the other players, except the quarterback.

(Trivia fact most don't know: the center can call an audible and override the play the quarterback has called before the snap)

 

[Nate]

Adding a TGU could fill gaps, tie together a player though. Like being able to more fully transfer already developed lower body power through the hands in a block, especially off-centered...

 

[John Grahill]

Actually, there are some programs that utilize kettlebells in football training. They generally are not exclusively used but used "in addition to" if that's the right term. If you Google Ethan Reeve, he was a knowledgeable strength and conditioning coach at Wake Forest a few years back and he posted on the old Dragondoor forum a spring workout test for their football program. One of the tested movements was "repping" double 32 kg clean and presses with kettlebells. Some players surpassed 20 reps!

I've seen videos of I believe Clay Matthew's Jr. doing kettlebell swings on YouTube.....

I use them as they are easier on my joints and easy to store.. .

 

[John Grahill]

By the way, I agree with @watchnerd and feel he is certainly correct that the center is absolutely an invaluable member of the O line! Their heads are always scanning the opposing defensive alignment on every play.

 

[watchnerd]

Actually, there are some programs that utilize kettlebells in football training. They generally are not exclusively used but used "in addition to" if that's the right term. If you Google Ethan Reeve, he was a knowledgeable strength and conditioning coach at Wake Forest a few years back and he posted on the old Dragondoor forum a spring workout test for their football program. One of the tested movements was "repping" double 32 kg clean and presses with kettlebells. Some players surpassed 20 reps!

I've seen videos of I believe Clay Matthew's Jr. doing kettlebell swings on YouTube.....

I use them as they are easier on my joints and easy to store.. .

Wake Forest?

HIgh school level is a whole different ball game from Division 1 / NFL.

[Edit: This is a football joke; I was PAC-10/12, we tease Atlantic Conference.]

But seriously, there is a huge emphasis on S&C in high school -- no better natural steroid than puberty.

A good portion of Rippetoe's methods are based on bulking up high schoolers.

Because the average skill level is mediocre (mainly because the population hasn't been weeded out), and there is such a variance in size amongst teens, being more physical can be a game changer.

Once the players get older, and the ranks get thinned immensely for those who are not so skilled and not so physically suited, talent moves up the ranks of the game changing algorithm.

But in high school -- yeah, big mediocre kids beat average size mediocre kids.

 

[watchnerd]

Adding a TGU could fill gaps, tie together a player though. Like being able to more fully transfer already developed lower body power through the hands in a block, especially off-centered...

Or just practice blocking more -- single blocks, combo blocks, RB screens -- all of these work through as many (although different) angles as a TGU hits, and with a lot more force and the complication of non-stationary feet.

And the TGU is a somewhat complicated lift that most aren't familiar with -- any time spent in the gym is time not spent practicing. Is time spent learning this new lift really going to make my player a better performer than just practicing more? It's not an easy sell to the offensive /defensive coordinator or head coach....and they're the ones who determine how much time is given to S&C....

In Division 1 football, NCAA rules specify the athletes can spend no more than 20 hours a week on athletic activities. ~70-80% of that will be field practice and drills, 5-10% on play reviews and white board time, and 10-15%, max 20% on S&C. So you've got 2-4 hours per week (it will go up and down) for all the S&C, which also has to include any sprints, sled work, agility ladders, and the like, as well as any actual weight room work. That's not a lot of time to learn a new, complex lift like the TGU.

As a center, one of my main jobs was to block / neutralize the nose tackle.

And nose tackles are crazy and big SOBs...nose tackle is usually considered to be the most physically demanding position in grid iron football.

They were usually 50+ lbs heavier than me.

A nose tackle with 300+ lb bodyweight on you generates a lot more force on your body than a typical TGU.

 

[NormanOsborn]

Or just practice blocking more -- single blocks, combo blocks, RB screens -- all of these work through as many (although different) angles as a TGU hits, and with a lot more force and the complication of non-stationary feet.

And the TGU is a somewhat complicated lift that most aren't familiar with -- any time spent in the gym is time not spent practicing. Is time spent learning this new lift really going to make my player a better performer than just practicing more? It's not an easy sell to the offensive /defensive coordinator or head coach....and they're the ones who determine how much time is given to S&C....

In Division 1 football, NCAA rules specify the athletes can spend no more than 20 hours a week on athletic activities. ~70-80% of that will be field practice and drills, 5-10% on play reviews and white board time, and 10-15%, max 20% on S&C. So you've got 2-4 hours per week (it will go up and down) for all the S&C, which also has to include any sprints, sled work, agility ladders, and the like, as well as any actual weight room work. That's not a lot of time to learn a new, complex lift like the TGU.

As a center, one of my main jobs was to block / neutralize the nose tackle.

And nose tackles are crazy and big SOBs...nose tackle is usually considered to be the most physically demanding position in grid iron football.

They were usually 50+ lbs heavier than me.

A nose tackle with 300+ lb bodyweight on you generates a lot more force on your body than a typical TGU.

So, if we agree that the Swing has benefits for Football players(depending on their position)but the TGU is too complex, what, if any, other KB lifts would you suggest? Clean and Press?

 

[watchnerd]

So, if we agree that the Swing has benefits for Football players(depending on their position)but the TGU is too complex, what, if any, other KB lifts would you suggest? Clean and Press?

Most football positions are already benching.

And football is one of the few sports where a horizontal press actually is functional to the job at hand.

C&P is pretty easy to learn, but if the players are already benching, do they need another press?

Maybe for health reasons to avoid bench related injuries?

Maybe for quarterbacks and receivers who have to do more overhead play, it would make sense. I think it's a hard sell for running backs and linemen, who spend more time blocking.

 

[NormanOsborn]

Most football positions are already benching.

And football is one of the few sports where a horizontal press actually is functional to the job at hand.

C&P is pretty easy to learn, but if the players are already benching, do they need another press?

Maybe for health reasons to avoid bench related injuries?

Maybe for quarterbacks and receivers who have to do more overhead play, it would make sense. I think it's a hard sell for running backs and linemen, who spend more time blocking.

In terms of maintaining shoulder mobility and health, I'd venture to suggest the TGU is superior to the Cleans and Press. Although I agree that with such limited time for S&C, football players shouldn't be learning such a complex exercise.

 

[watchnerd]

In terms of maintaining shoulder mobility and health, I'd venture to suggest the TGU is superior to the Cleans and Press. Although I agree that with such limited time for S&C, football players shouldn't be learning such a complex exercise.

There is an entrenched legacy of football S&C coaches believing they know what works, and capital investment in certain equipment.

Anything new has to be shown not just to be better than some existing exercise in isolation, but to deliver on-field gains in terms of making better football players who win more games such that it justifies switching costs, in terms of player time, coach time, and capital equipment.

That's not an easy bar to meet.

 

[Jamesjones]

I don’t know a lot about football but tgu translate well to rugby for forwards as core strength and the ability to get up after a hit means a lot plus the core strength to stop a tackle is beneficial

 

[marvinthemartian]

Seriously, what makes the Get Up so complicated that pro athletes would just waste their time? As I understand it American Football is one of the most competitive sports in the world. Surely most players who managed to play on a high level in high school and college spent a lot of time on more complicated stuff to develop their athleticism outside of playing football.

 

[Denny Phillips]

There are plenty of collegiate programs using them and sometimes the collegiate game filters up to the NFL as opposed to vice versa, for example the zone read play. So it is, I think, with kb's. The Steelers use them and they are sprinkled throughout the league although I don't think they are programmed into the overall strength approach, rather as a matter of preference for clusters of players.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

Seriously, what makes the Get Up so complicated that pro athletes would just waste their time? As I understand it American Football is one of the most competitive sports in the world. Surely most players who managed to play on a high level in high school and college spent a lot of time on more complicated stuff to develop their athleticism outside of playing football.

At that level ( college ) not complicated at all. It will get programmed if the head strength coach wants it programmed.

NFL, player will do it if they want to.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

There are plenty of collegiate programs using them and sometimes the collegiate game filters up to the NFL as opposed to vice versa, for example the zone read play. So it is, I think, with kb's. The Steelers use them and they are sprinkled throughout the league although I don't think they are programmed into the overall strength approach, rather as a matter of preference for clusters of players.

Yep, NFL level players have a choice of what the will or won't do, so it depends. Not uncommon to not do jack during the off season. On the other side of that, some will hire the own trainers/coaches and follow their own programs. Sometimes off season work outs are a part of their contracts, so miss them and get fined. Many aren't too worried about the fines.