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The program states that once you own the intermediate weight, and you decide to stay with Swings & TGU, you no longer do swings on the :30. Curious about reasoning for this.
 
The program states that once you own the intermediate weight, and you decide to stay with Swings & TGU, you no longer do swings on the :30. Curious about reasoning for this.
My understanding is that at that point, you are on a weight that is heavy enough to be too much intensity to recover from in the :30. We’d be better off going to q&d or something comparable, at a lower weight. Or in this case, moving on to CnJ.
I really like the idea of rotating this with QnD 044. @Bauer, what kind of training blocks were you or are you planning on rotating those protocols?

Edit: i found the question regarding a+a and q&d answered in the q&a section of the article. Pavel recommends 6 week blocks.
 
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The program states that once you own the intermediate weight, and you decide to stay with Swings & TGU, you no longer do swings on the :30. Curious about reasoning for this.
The way I read it, you still switch to OT30, just without a target time. (It is probable that you will plateau long before 80x5 OT30...)

@LarryB Currently I am running 044 swings before my pressing sessions. Before I was doing the advanced swings and getups program with a 32 kg bell and was at 24x OTM (coming from a period of various colds, beforr I was able to to 36x5 timeless).

I switched to 044 because I wanted to experience Q&D and the minimalist volume appealed to me.

I will probably switch to an A+A based protocol (less than 20 minutes) after 8 weeks of 044, alternating swings and snatches -- trying to dial in good snatching form.
 
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I don’t doubt it. Stopping at 10 min with the 32k is what got me asking this question. I know i can make it theough if i want, but am trying not to lie to myself. I’ll be interested to see my progress. What kind of time jumps would people see on a weekly basis?
I saw OTM improvements weekly. OT30s were more sporadic, including a week up, then a week down, then a week up again.
 
The way I read it, you still switch to OT30, just without a target time. (It is probable that you will plateau long before 80x5 OT30...)

@LarryB Currently I am running 044 swings before my pressing sessions. Before I was doing the advanced swings and getups program with a 32 kg bell and was at 24x OTM (coming from a period of various colds).

I switched to 044 because I wanted to experience Q&D and the minimalist volume appealed to me.

I will probably switch to an A+A based protocol (less than 20 minutes) after 8 weeks of 044, alternating swings and snatches -- trying to dial in good snatching form.
Nice, I’m prepping for a marathon long term so i think i will rotate a+a and q&d for the remainder of the year till the marathon. Then some prep work before taking on ROP with the 32 next winter. Snatch form is a goal of mine as well. I’m trying to keep running the goal, and keep my s&c “smart”.
 
How does s&s compare to the swing/tgu program? Is it worth purchasing now or wait till it's on sale? Is it a clear cut progression of programs or a more do whatever when you reach a certain point?
 
How does s&s compare to the swing/tgu program? Is it worth purchasing now or wait till it's on sale? Is it a clear cut progression of programs or a more do whatever when you reach a certain point?
Both...
Swings are more structured (timed), session to session progression is autoregulated and weight progression is very clear. TGUs are more variable (different weights) and no fixed progression or volume. Less overall volume than S&S (i.e. 3x per week).

Wait for a discount. But then go try it. It has a really nice feel to it, IMO.
 
How does s&s compare to the swing/tgu program? Is it worth purchasing now or wait till it's on sale? Is it a clear cut progression of programs or a more do whatever when you reach a certain point?
Self regulated progression with clear cut guidelines. I second everything @Bauer said. I like it very much. Ive been using it to supplement my running. You can check it out on my logs if you want to get a better idea of the program.
 
How does s&s compare to the swing/tgu program? Is it worth purchasing now or wait till it's on sale? Is it a clear cut progression of programs or a more do whatever when you reach a certain point?
I'll just reference the basic swing/tgu program, which you use up til 40%BW. You are doing three sessions a week. A session may be up to 200 swings. The sessions allow for waviness based on how you're doing that day.

The progression for swings is clear - when to add sets, when to change intervals, when to progress weight. The progression for get-ups is less clear, more by feel.

I like the program for swings in that the progression is clear. I like that S&S allows me to push the get-ups more. I like that S&S is flexible on frequency. I don't like this program once you get past 40%BW - you are swinging or getting up only 3 times in two weeks. I'm not criticizing it, just stating my preferences.

I would purchase it on sale. Likely it will be on sale in the next couple weeks for St. Patrick's Day. I really enjoyed it and used it up to swinging 40kg (42% my BW at the time). I liked the session and weekly format - you push one day a week, maintain one day a week, and recover one day a week. In a way it is "same kind of different" as S&S. Once I hit intermediate (40%BW), I did not progress to the "next stage" (advanced swing/getup or C&J) but he is clear how to progress once you hit that.
 
Hi @LarryB
What does your training schedule mix KB+strength with running mileage?

I took a brief look at your training log (impressivE!) and see that your leg was bust until now, so you haven't done too much running recently. ummm, you can tell me to go and investigate your log...which time-frame is appropriate for my search to see your running+strength?

Glad that you're healed up, and my condolences on the passing of your family elder.
I just started running again in the last two months. I haven’t really been running more than 10 miles a week. At this point I don’t really have a progression plan for the running. I was just going two days a week LED (commute to university twice a week) totaling around 10 miles a week. I think i will add a third day moving forward. Right now is all base building for marathon season. M,W,F strength; T, Th (Saturdays now too) is running.
 
I train 6days/week as I have the time right now. My current 12week plan is 5days KB and 1day run. once this plan is over (10weeks or so left), then I will switch to something like yours. maybe split equal 3 strength + 3 runs (1 easy short, 1 hard, 1 easy long).
but I am no marathoner! I decided 2 decades ago to limit myself to the 1/2 marathon: 21.2km, my fav running effort is the 15km solo run. i'll probably modify the Polar 1/2marathon program to try a PB 15km (current PB = 93min end July 2021)
I love the half marathon as well. My wife is a marathon junkie though, so I try to get one in a year for the past few years.
 
I might be one of the first... but this program is not for me....

The "longer" sessions are taking way to much energy out of me taking away from my mat time and feeling fatigued all day. This fatigue started a couple weeks into the program. I had finished swings 24KG 18 min every 30sec and TGU on the day 15 minutes. Then moved to "Intermediate plan" with 28kg worked up to swings 14 min every 30sec. TGU were moved onto a it's own day... When keeping the total swings at 100 I'm fine. But once I go over that, fatigue sets in. Same for TGU, 15 minutes I'm fine but the 30 minute sessions were truly fatiguing.

I'm taking a week or two off now and will go back to S&S and see if it's just my current life causing this or the program.
I have not yet tried the C&J portion of the program. I wanted to reach the full intermediate status before going there. I may try it on it's own sometime in the future.

For reference: past results include 40kg Timeless S&S (total time ~45min with 5 minutes rest between swings/tgu). I do two different martial arts (Judo/Aikijujutsu) totally 6 days per week 90minute sessions each. Office worker, sitting in a chair all day. Had the original version of Covid - my lungs are still messed up 2 years later.
 
I might be one of the first... but this program is not for me....

The "longer" sessions are taking way to much energy out of me taking away from my mat time and feeling fatigued all day. This fatigue started a couple weeks into the program. I had finished swings 24KG 18 min every 30sec and TGU on the day 15 minutes. Then moved to "Intermediate plan" with 28kg worked up to swings 14 min every 30sec. TGU were moved onto a it's own day... When keeping the total swings at 100 I'm fine. But once I go over that, fatigue sets in. Same for TGU, 15 minutes I'm fine but the 30 minute sessions were truly fatiguing.

I'm taking a week or two off now and will go back to S&S and see if it's just my current life causing this or the program.
I have not yet tried the C&J portion of the program. I wanted to reach the full intermediate status before going there. I may try it on it's own sometime in the future.

For reference: past results include 40kg Timeless S&S (total time ~45min with 5 minutes rest between swings/tgu). I do two different martial arts (Judo/Aikijujutsu) totally 6 days per week 90minute sessions each. Office worker, sitting in a chair all day. Had the original version of Covid - my lungs are still messed up 2 years later.

Maybe the OTM will be more sustainable than OT30. I’m not training BJJ but marathoning so two different beasts to compare there. So far it is quite maintainable for me though.
 
Maybe the OTM will be more sustainable than OT30. I’m not training BJJ but marathoning so two different beasts to compare there. So far it is quite maintainable for me though.
If I had to guess - I think it has to do with the volume of work in a single session versus spreading it out like S&S. Swings at 100 reps in a session I seem to be fine, start going above that and I start to get fatigued. Similar for TGU, go past 15 minutes / 10reps and it starts to take a bite out of me. What's also boggling my mind is that during the session, I can adhere to rules and pass the talk test. It's what's happening afterwards during the rest of my day and the day off that's killing me...

Keep in mind, I'm bowing out at 28KG for this program... but my S&S numbers was a 40KG (albeit 2-3 min per set of swing)...
 
If I had to guess - I think it has to do with the volume of work in a single session versus spreading it out like S&S. Swings at 100 reps in a session I seem to be fine, start going above that and I start to get fatigued. Similar for TGU, go past 15 minutes / 10reps and it starts to take a bite out of me. What's also boggling my mind is that during the session, I can adhere to rules and pass the talk test. It's what's happening afterwards during the rest of my day and the day off that's killing me...

Keep in mind, I'm bowing out at 28KG for this program... but my S&S numbers was a 40KG (albeit 2-3 min per set of swing)...

Listen to your body then brother. You definitely gave it a solid go.
 
If I had to guess - I think it has to do with the volume of work in a single session versus spreading it out like S&S. Swings at 100 reps in a session I seem to be fine, start going above that and I start to get fatigued. Similar for TGU, go past 15 minutes / 10reps and it starts to take a bite out of me. What's also boggling my mind is that during the session, I can adhere to rules and pass the talk test. It's what's happening afterwards during the rest of my day and the day off that's killing me...

Keep in mind, I'm bowing out at 28KG for this program... but my S&S numbers was a 40KG (albeit 2-3 min per set of swing)...
Why did you start with the 24 kg if you can swing the 40 kg for S&S?
As @LarryB said, I'd stick to OTM.
What's your RPE?
Sounds like you might be going glycolytic.
 
S&S RPE per swing sets was about 8, overall a session would feel like 7. About 30 minutes after I was done, I felt energized for the rest of the day.
BJJFan RPE was about 4 per set. By the end of a session it felt like a 5. An hour after the session I felt fatigued.

I started with 24KG as a conservative start, I always start new programs conservatively. Also keep in mind I have other primary physical activities, KB's are the supplement not the goal... In this case I didn't know how I'd react to the "Talk Test" instead of using my HR monitor. I didn't know how I'd react to OtM or Ot30s. And I wasn't sure how less frequent higher volume sessions would affect me vs lower volume more frequent sessions.

It would seem that higher volume sessions extract a fatigue toll on me. To me it seems like when I get up to 140 rep sessions is when it starts to affect my rest of day fatigue levels. For TGU's it appears to be anytime I start doing more than 15 minutes (regardless of number of reps).

I learned some tricks from the BJJFan program which I will port to S&S. The talk test was very interesting instead of using my HR monitor. Same with OtM and Ot30s. In fact, I'll be restarting S&S using OtXXs with reduced weights to work towards "Timed" progressions.
 
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S&S RPE per swing sets was about 8, overall a session would feel like 7. About 30 minutes after I was done, I felt energized for the rest of the day.
BJJFan RPE was about 4 per set. By the end of a session it felt like a 5. An hour after the session I felt fatigued.

I started with 24KG as a conservative start, I always start new programs conservatively. Also keep in mind I have other primary physical activities, KB's are the supplement not the goal... In this case I didn't know how I'd react to the "Talk Test" instead of using my HR monitor. I didn't know how I'd react to OtM or Ot30s. And I wasn't sure how less frequent higher volume sessions would affect me vs lower volume more frequent sessions.

It would seem that higher volume sessions extract a fatigue toll on me. To me it seems like when I get up to 140 rep sessions is when it starts to affect my rest of day fatigue levels. For TGU's it appears to be anytime I start doing more than 15 minutes (regardless of number of reps).

I learned some tricks from the BJJFan program which I will port to S&S. The talk test was very interesting instead of using my HR monitor. Same with OtM and Ot30s. In fact, I'll be restarting S&S using OtXXs with reduced weights to work towards "Timed" progressions.
That all makes sense.
I would thought the volume would have been lower if your RPE matched and you'd used the heavier bell.
In stead, by using a lighter bell, you've jumped to some high volumes (reps count) which you have realised don't suit you, as it stands.
 
I had a moment of realisation yesterday.
Halfway through a sparring class it came to me how serene and tranquil I felt.
Perhaps the competition wasn't foreboding enough (this is mixed ability group afterall) but that's not the point.

Ever since I started following StrongFirst, I have focused on increasing my numbers and increase my relative strength. I love seeing my numbers go up. It's really motivating for me.

The KB-SF LCCJ programme has and continues to deliver in this regard.

But last night I realised how I am more relaxed between strikes. The consequence seems to be less overall exertion, less sweat, less breathing and rapid recovery.

I can’t quantify this feeling - which is a shame.

Looking forward to retesting my RM numbers soon to add a quantifiable perspective to this...
 
Hello friends,

I am currently running the advanced program with 2x28.

I was wondering how many sessions without progress would constitute a 'stall'.

The literature does say that volume will vary day by day, and not to try and beat my prior effort, but it would be good to have a number of sessions in mind.

Thanks!
 
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