Other/Mixed Leg complexes?

[the hansenator]

I was looking at a couple of leg complex workouts like quadzilla and leg blasters where you would string together several exercises into one set. MTI even had a short study which found leg blasters and front squats had similar strength gains.

I was curious if anyone could explain the idea behind leg complex workouts like that or if you have any thoughts on it? What makes it work or not? It looks very glycolytic.

 

[vegpedlr]

I have not done such workouts because they are glycolytic, but mostly because I know they will hurt! But I also know that I know that at some point I will need too.

It’s strength endurance training, or perhaps more specifically muscle endurance since you’re really focusing on the legs. In Schaul’s case, it’s to train eccentric muscle endurance, which is critical in downhill skiing and running. You can read his thoughts, but to sum, the skiers he worked with weren’t benefiting from just strength work as planned when they actually got on the hill.

The Uphill Athlete discusses this well in the book, and here is one of their articles from their website:

Strength Training Archives

Build power and resilience with Uphill Athlete's strength training resources, designed to enhance your athletic performance.

www.uphillathlete.com

As an alternative, KB FSQ based complexes might be beneficial without the eccentric stress. Like Dan John’s The Eagle, or Armor Building Complex.

 

[pet']

Hello,

Here is another one by A. Salkins, SFG2


You can do it on a steady pace so it is not glycolytic.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I was curious if anyone could explain the idea behind leg complex workouts like that or if you have any thoughts on it? What makes it work or not? It looks very glycolytic.

Hypertrophy Training

Leg complexes (exercises of this nature) fall into Traditional Hypertrophy Training.

Hypertrophy Training primarily utilizes the Glycolytic Energy System.

This produces....

"The Pump"

Arterial Blood flows from the heart to the working muscles.

However, the muscle contraction restrict blood flow from the muscles back to the heart.

This produces "The Pump", as well as "The Burn". Blood is trapped in the muscles, similar to blowing up a balloon.

This produces a build up of lactate that triggers a "Down Stream" anabolic response, increasing muscle mass.

Reps, Sets and Rest Periods

1) Reps: Moderate to High Reps (8 reps plus) flood the muscle with blood.

2) Sets: Moderate to High Sets (3 sets plus) increase "The Pump".

3) Rest Periods Between Sets: Short rest period between set increase "The Pump"; more blood remains trapped in the muscles, less escapes back to the heart; a minute or less between sets.

The Underlying Mechanism

The underlying mechanism of Traditional Hypertrophy Training involves "The Pump".

With that said, a Traditional Hypertrophy Training that employs Leg Complexes or Multiple Sets of a Leg Press, Squat, etc will elicit the same Hypertrophic response; "The Pump".

There is nothing special about Complex Leg Exercises..

The Downside of Traditional Hypertrophy Training

As vegpedlr stated, Hypertrophy Training falls more into the area of Strength Endurance Training. This type of Hypertrophy Endurance Training alone increases, muscle mass at the expense of Maximum Strength and Power; both drop like a rock.

If you only perform Traditional Hypertrophy Protocol alone, muscle mass increases at the expense of Maximum Strength and Power; both drop like a rock.

Ensuring Maximum Strength and Power

1) Conjugate Training

Performing a Training Program that includes Hypertrophy, Power and Maximum Strength.

2) Cluster Set Hypertrophy Training

Kettlebell - Singles or double for hypertrophy and strength?

Hello everyone. Had a chat today with my brother on the above topic (the hours sure do fly by at mine...). We were discussing doing C & P with 2 x 24s or 1 x 32KG. The same number of reps are performed for the thought experiment. Say, we do ladders in roughly the same total time with very...

www.strongfirst.com

This method allows you to increase muscle mass while increasing Power and Maximum Strength.

Exercise Example:

Cluster Set 1:

a) 4 Repetition

Rest 20 seconds

b) 4 Repetition

c) Rest 20 seconds

4 Repetition

Rest 20 seconds

d) 4 Repetition

Rest 20 seconds

e) 4 Repetition

Stop. Cluster Set 1 is completed.

Rest 3 minutes the preform Cluster Set 2, then 3, etc.

Cluster Set Repetitions

Total in Each Cluster Set: 20 Repetition

Each Repetition need to be preformed explosively. Once Power drop, Stop the set.

The reason for preforming each repetition explosively is to innervate/train/develop the Fast Type IIa and "Super" Fast Type IIb/x Muscle Fiber; they are exhausted in.

That means the Fast Twitch stop working and your "Endurance" Slow Type I Muscle Fiber take over, which is counter productive the objective.

 

[the hansenator]

MTI even had a short study which found leg blasters and front squats had similar strength gains.

Thanks for the replies.

I am curious about the above mentioned mini-study which found similar strength gains between front squats and the leg blaster complex. It only went 3 weeks, it would have been ingeresting to see the results over a longer time period.

 

[vegpedlr]

That kind of high volume circuit training is for hypertrophy? That’s definitely not what the Uphill Athlete is aiming for.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I am curious about the above mentioned mini-study which found similar strength gains between front squats and the leg blaster complex. It only went 3 weeks, it would have been ingeresting to see the results over a longer time period.

Research Reference

This did not provide any research reference on this training; something articles should do. It appears this was a home made project.

So, it is hard to evaluate much regarding this article.

Increasing Strength

Most Resistance Training programs will increase. So, I am sure there was some type of Strength Increase.

Leg Blaster Breakdown

Leg Blasters

There's about 20 cm of snow on the ground from the storm that landed on the Rockies today. That's way too early for my tastes. But, like everyone else,

sawback.com

Leg Blasters

There's about 20 cm of snow on the ground from the storm that landed on the Rockies today. That's way too early for my tastes. But, like everyone else,

sawback.com

Mini Leg Blaster
10x Air Squats
5x In-Place Lunges (5x each leg, 10x total)
5x Jumping Lunges (5x each leg, 10x total)
5x Jump Squats

Leg Blaster
20x Air Squats
10x In-Place Lunges (10x each leg, 20x total)
10x Jumping Lunges (10x each leg, 20x total)
10x Jump Squats

This Leg Blaster Sets method is Circuit Training. Circuit Training falls into Endurance/Conditioning rather than Strength or Power Training.

Leg Blaster Training could also be considered French Contrast Training and High Intensity Interval Resistance Training. These method are the Resistance Training version of High intensity Interval Cardio Training.

Geek Leg Blasters

Geek Cycle: Leg Blasters Match Front Squat in Building Lower Body Strength - Mountain Tactical Institute

By Charles Bausman The Tactical Lab Rats here at MTI just concluded our 3-week Geek Cycle which consisted of four mini-studies comparing different methods of developing the following: Lower Body Strength Push Up Improvement Loaded Pull Up Improvement Power Development Findings and Discussion...

mtntactical.com

Bausman 's article does make one correct assessment of this this program...

"The testing procedures would likely be frowned upon by academia..."

Let me add that neither does the training protocol make sense in the academia/science research nor empirical areas in the development of Maximum Strength or Power Training.

As @vegpedlr stated, this method falls into the area of Strength Endurance Training. If that is someone's objective, implement it.

If the objective is Maximum Strength or Power Training, other methods need to be implemented for optimization in development of of these type of strength.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@kennycro@@aol.com
Even if this is not a complex but some kind of intensification method, what do you think (very open question) about the'Darden 30-10-30' in the link below:

Get Jacked Without Leaving Your House

Stuck at home? Here's how to whip up some homemade gains with eight advanced training methods.

www.t-nation.com

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Even if this is not a complex but some kind of intensification method, what do you think (very open question) about the'Darden 30-10-30' in the link below:

Get Jacked Without Leaving Your House

Stuck at home? Here's how to whip up some homemade gains with eight advanced training methods.

www.t-nation.com

Kind regards,

Getting Jacked

Thibaudeau is one of the best in the field.

This "Getting Jacked" method is body weight Hypertrophy Training.

With that said, let's break down...

Traditional Hypertrophy Training/Bodybuilding

This is produced with 8 repetitions or more, for multiple sets, with short rest periods taken between sets.

This protocol produces...

"The Pump"

Blood flows (arterial blood flow) from the heart to the muscles being worked.

The muscle contraction then traps the blood in the muscle being worked.

The traps blood in the muscles; venous blood flow from the muscles back to the heart is restricted.

This balloons up the muscles producing an increase in...

Lactate

Lactate creates "The Burn"

Lactate triggers the downstream anabolic, muscle building effect.

"Accumulation of Metabolites (lactic acid > acidic environment > GH secretion)"
Source: Dr Jeremy Loenneke , "Practical Occlusion Training"

Thus, Traditional Hypertrophy Training/Bodybuilding is another form of Occlusion Training.

This bring us back to your question on...

'Darden 30-10-30'

This method, as well as the others prescribed in the article, fall into Hypertrophy Training.

The Long Eccentric in the 'Darden 30-10-30' movement as well as a Long Isometric Action evokes a similar effects that Hypertrophy Training and Occlusion Training do; it traps blood in the muscles, restricting blood flow back to the heart.

Garden Hose Example

Think of a Long Eccentric or Isometric Action like turning on a garden hose.

The water is flowing out of it.

You then crimp down on the hose, bending it so that only a little water flows out of it.

The water pressure build in the hose. So, when you release it, more water flows out of the hose.

In Long Eccentric or Isometric Action once you stop, the same occurs (as in the garden hose) an increase in blood flow to the muscles.

Performing Repetition After An Eccentric Or Isometric

Once the Long Eccentric or Isometric Action is completed, you perform multiple repetition in the exercise.

Performing Repetition after a Long Eccentric or Isometric Action floods the muscle with even more blood.

Ice and Heat Example

Think of the as a Long Eccentric or Isometric Action like applying ice to muscles; it restricts blood flow. Blood flow is dammed up.

After let's say after 20 minutes, you take the ice off and apply heat a heating pad.

The heat dramatically increase blood flow to the muscles (as in the garden hose example); the same occurs when you preform repetitions after a Long Eccentric or Isometric Action.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@kennycro@@aol.com
Thank you very much for your explanation, very accurate and useful, as always !

So if you do not mind, this leads me to a few other questions:
- If I use a weight to perform the squat (to reach the 1-5 rep range), could it work for strength ? If not, what kind of "intensification" method could I use to gain strength using bodyweight only, without necessarily using the pistol squat ?
- If my "option" would work as a strength method, how many sets should I have to do ?

EDIT:
I like the pistol squat and perform it daily, but woud like to get variety from time to time.

Thanks again,

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

- If I use a weight to perform the squat (to reach the 1-5 rep range), could it work for strength ?

Maximum Strength Training

Yes. You probably know that protocol already.

1) 1 - 5 Repetitions

2) 85% plus of 1 Repetition Max

3) Rest Periods between Sets of 3 minutes or longer.

...what kind of "intensification" method could I use to gain strength using bodyweight only, without necessarily using the pistol squat ?

Progressive Resistance Loading

Some type of Progressive Resistance Loading, as you know needs to occur. I am guessing that is what you mean by "Intensification".

"Body Weight Only"

This makes it a little harder in progressively increase the resistance loading.

Some Alternatives

1) One Leg Training

Step Up on a Box, Bulgarian Split Squat, Lunges, Pistol Squats, Sprints: Bleachers or Hills, etc.

2) Split Squat Jumps


You have to generate a lot of force (strength/power) to go airborne.

3) Bulgarian Split Squat Jump


You can also perform a Bulgarian Split Squat Jumps

4) Bike Sprints

It's an alternative to "Body Weight Only" Training, if you have a bike.

A Bike Exercise amounts to a 1 Leg, Leg Press.

a) Exercise Bike: Easy to increase the resistance.

b) Outdoor Bike; Put in in a lower gear and sprint on flat land or hills.

Stabilizer Muscles

As you know, unstable movement primarily train/develops the Stabilizer Muscles; like Step Ups and Pistol Squats.

The downside is that the primary muscles in exercises like Step Ups and Pistol Squat are underloaded.

Primary Muscles

The greater the stability of an exercise, the greater the involvement of the primary muscles.

That is why machines are such an effective method of developing the primary muscle in the exercise, like a Leg Press.

It takes the Stabilizer Muscles out of the equation, placing the workload on the primary muscles (the Quads). It comes at the expense of the the development of the Stabilizer Muscles.

With that in mind, some training needs to be devoted both: the Stabilizer and Primary Muscles.

Let's look at how that will work.

1) Stability Muscle Step Up and Pistol Squat Training

Perform them without holding to anything, which you probably do. This places more of the workload on the Stabilizer Muscles.

2) Primary Muscle Step Up and Pistol Squat Training

Hold on to something when doing them.

This eliminates the involvement of the Stability Muscles and places more of the workload on the Primary Muscles.

What you might consider is focusing on Stability Muscle Training one workout and Primary Muscle Training the next workout.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Thanks for the replies.

I am curious about the above mentioned mini-study which found similar strength gains between front squats and the leg blaster complex. It only went 3 weeks, it would have been ingeresting to see the results over a longer time period.

Over a relatively short term I have no doubt the results are fairly durable even if you expanded the study group - the squat pattern in particular responds well to higher rep work, up to a point.

At a guess over a longer period of time you would have to do the leg blasters with a sandbag over your shoulders or load them some other way. At some point you're left with increasing the number of circuits, limiting rest etc and all of these will yield limited improvements to limit strength. You can't just increase metabolic stress and expect to keep getting improvements in top end strength, you have to include a high tension component in the form of heavier loading or isometrics.

If you started loading the Leg Blasters group with modest weights (start at 40-50lb sandbag) and decreasing the number of circuits, or using a combined overcoming isometric exertion with the standard LB protocol, you're going to see a sizable increase in limit strength and endurance. If anything, due to the greater number of movements involved I would expect a larger carryover to untrained activities involving leg/squat endurance under load. I'm surprised this was not explored as an option given MTI extensive use and experience with sandbag training.

Lastly, you have to keep this study in context:

From a programming perspective, training strength means you need access to a fully-equipped gym. This may provide a viable option for those training in austere environments or simply without access to a gym.

 

[North Coast Miller]

As a related note - I have used jumping split squats loaded with light weight to increase resistance and the combination is brutal. A 60lb bag was more than enough to turn this from an explosive conditioning exercise to a fairly low rep power grind.

Remember, "glycolytic" work doesn't yield lower increases in limit strength for metabolic reasons, its due to using less weight, and that hampers tendon remodeling. Without high tension you just don't get those results no matter how much volume you use.

 

[pet']

Hello,

At a guess over a longer period of time you would have to do the leg blasters with a sandbag over your shoulders or load them some other way. At some point you're left with increasing the number of circuits, limiting rest etc and all of these will yield limited improvements to limit strength. You can't just increase metabolic stress and expect to keep getting improvements in top end strength, you have to include a high tension component in the form of heavier loading or isometrics.

This is true.

I am currently running it. I added 1 pistol each side at the beginning and also 10 burpees at the end, and do 4 rounds. I also do the squats and the lunges with a backpack of 14kg. I usually tend to avoid jumping with loads, because I am - possible too - cautious with joints on the long haul. Trailing is already taxing enough. This kind of circuits can also be fairly hard to recover from if one load them too much. If one has outdoor activities, one has to be cautious of the recovery topic.

It clearly builds up this "lactic buffering", and also increases balance. We can easily see the results of this complex while running up / downhill.

If you started loading the Leg Blasters group with modest weights (start at 40-50lb sandbag) and decreasing the number of circuits, or using a combined overcoming isometric exertion with the standard LB protocol, you're going to see a sizable increase in limit strength and endurance. If anything, due to the greater number of movements involved I would expect a larger carryover to untrained activities involving leg/squat endurance under load

+1

Another interesting method could be echanical dropsets can also work: pistol > Cossack > air squat > jump squat > lunge > calf raises. Performed with no rest between exercises, and very close to failure.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Rúben Sousa]

I was looking at a couple of leg complex workouts like quadzilla and leg blasters where you would string together several exercises into one set. MTI even had a short study which found leg blasters and front squats had similar strength gains.

I was curious if anyone could explain the idea behind leg complex workouts like that or if you have any thoughts on it? What makes it work or not? It looks very glycolytic.

Try greasing the groove pistol squats until you reach 20 reps, and then switching to other rotine with height on it.

I used the same methodology as the Russian pull up fighter program in the pistol, and that lead me to huge results both volume and strength in a very very short time.

Also it is a very functional squat. My kicking power started to increase dramatically.