Barbell Leg curl before squats?

[Warzone2022]

My goal is strength and to build overall size and have bigger numbers.

My question is, ive always been plagued with knee pain due to being quad dominant, however I've heard that leg curls (High rep) are brilliant before heavy squats (sets of five) to lubricate the joint and make the squat more stable when pyramiding up in weight.

I normally do leg extensions (50 reps) single legged before I start pyramiding with squats to warmup and do leg curl at the end of my squat and bench day for knee health, but does anyone else do leg curls to compliment the squat for knee health and stability and would adding it before squats benefit the knees/movement-pattern?

 

[watchnerd]

I often do Spanish squats as a priming exercise before barbell squatting.

They hit / isolate the quads just like leg curls, but are a more directly transferable to squats as a movement pattern.

They're also used by rehab folks to address knee pain.



Done properly, they're pretty difficult.

 

[Warzone2022]

I often do Spanish squats as a priming exercise before barbell squatting.

They hit / isolate the quads just like leg curls, but are a more directly transferable to squats as a movement pattern.



Done properly, they're pretty difficult.

Unfortunately I have no where to do it, hence my question lol, thanks though!

 

[watchnerd]

Unfortunately I have no where to do it, hence my question lol, thanks though!

Maybe I misunderstood.

If you're squatting already, all you need for Spanish squats is a squat rack and a resistance band.

 

[Hardartery]

I found no consistent difference from Leg Curls or Leg Extensions used in this way. I did find that neoprene knee sleeves (cheapo Walmart/pharmacy ones) work great. No assistance on the lift, but volume work doesn't bother me. At least it didn't when I last had rack access. It's been over a year now, one of these days.....

 

[Boris Bachmann]

Generally, I think experimenting with exercise order from time to time is good. I've done glute-ham raises before squatting on occasion. It certainly changes things, but I don't know if it's going to change things the way you want. The only way to know is to give it a shot. Probably commonsense, but be conservative w. your intensity and volume while in the experimental stages.

 

[watchnerd]

I found no consistent difference from Leg Curls or Leg Extensions used in this way. I did find that neoprene knee sleeves (cheapo Walmart/pharmacy ones) work great. No assistance on the lift, but volume work doesn't bother me. At least it didn't when I last had rack access. It's been over a year now, one of these days.....

I've 3 Rehband knee sleeves in the wear / air out until the smell just doesn't go away / wash rotation.

 

[william bad butt]

Low bar hip hinge squats or high bar knees forward squats? Bad knees? Do the former.

 

[GaryT]

My goal is strength and to build overall size and have bigger numbers.

My question is, ive always been plagued with knee pain due to being quad dominant, however I've heard that leg curls (High rep) are brilliant before heavy squats (sets of five) to lubricate the joint and make the squat more stable when pyramiding up in weight.

I normally do leg extensions (50 reps) single legged before I start pyramiding with squats to warmup and do leg curl at the end of my squat and bench day for knee health, but does anyone else do leg curls to compliment the squat for knee health and stability and would adding it before squats benefit the knees/movement-pattern?

I’ve seen quite a bit written about the benefit of doing leg curls before squats over the years. A quick search of tnation presented a few. Here’s one.

Leg Curl First, Squat Later

Squats rule, but doing hamstring curls first will make your legs even bigger and your squats even stronger. Here’s why.

www.google.com

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

ive always been plagued with knee pain due to being quad dominant,

Neoprene

I am a fan of neoprene. Neoprene Knee Sleeves, Elbow Sleeves and Waist Band.

They provide some support. But the main thing is they provide heat and increase circulation to those areas.

I did find that neoprene knee sleeves (cheapo Walmart/pharmacy ones) work great.

I've 3 Rehband knee sleeves

SBD Knee Bands

Like watchnerd, I have a pair of the Rehband Knee Sleeves.

However, I purchased the SBD's a few years ago. Along with providing heat, they provide knee support.

Powerlifting Knee Sleeves | PowerliftingToWin

In this article, the top four knee sleeves are compared: Titan, Tommy Kono, Rehband, and SBDs. The pros and cons are covered and recommendations are made.

www.powerliftingtowin.com

Izzy Narvaez provides one of the best reviews on the various brands.

Buy Two Sizes Smaller

One of the recommendation is to purchase SBD Sleeves that are two size smaller; which makes them tighter and provides more support.

My Rehband Knee Sleeve is a Medium. I purchase the Extra Small SBD Knee Bands.

Initially, it took me twenty minutes to get them on. I now get them on in less than thirty seconds.

Learning to get the SBD's on is a an acquired skill.

Calf Size

The issue with purchasing a Size or two Size Smaller SBD's is the size of your calves.

My calves are fairly small. So, I do not have much of an issue.

A buddy of mine has large calves. He like the SBD but getting them on for him take work.

Leg Curl First

The article Gary T posted is interesting.

John Meadows, who recently passed away, was one of the best when it comes to training.

So, what his article suggest might work.

Antagonist-Agonist Muscles

1) Agonist Muscles

These are the muscles involved an exercise.

Agonist Bench Press Muscle Example

Chest, Anterior Deltoid, and Triceps

2) Antagonist Muscles

These are the muscle that are not involved in an exercise.

Antagonist Bench Press Muscle Example

Lats, Posterior Deltoid, Rhomboids

The Upper Body Antagonist Muscles

The Antagonist Muscles provide a "Braking Mechanism" for Agonist Exercises.

Think of Agonist Muscles as the "Gas Pedal".

Antagonist Muscle as the "Brake". Thus, when performing an Agonist Exercise is is similar to driving your car with the Emergency Bake (Antagonist Muscles) on.

How do external cues work?

If you enjoy this article, you will like my first book (see on Amazon). --- Decades of research has demonstrated that the focus of at...

write.as

During many movements, the antagonist muscle contracts at the same time as the agonist, albeit to a lesser degree. While this contributes to joint stability and improves control over the movement, it also reduces the external joint torque for a given level of agonist muscle force. For this reason, a reduction in antagonist co-activation improves strength and exercise performance.

...a heavier weight might be lifted for a larger number of reps once antagonist co-activation has reduced,

Disengaging The Antagonist Brake

To increase force production (strength, power or speed) in a Agonist Exercise...

1) Perform an Antagonist Exercise First.

Before Bench Pressing, perform some Lat Pulldowns or Rows.

or

2) Stretch The Antagonist Muscle before performing the Agonist Exercise.

Before performing a Bench Press, hang from a Pull Up Bar.

Either of these methods "Disengages The Antagonist Brake"; allowing you to produce more force in the Agonist Exercise.

With that said, things are a little different with Lower Body Exercises.

Lombard's Paradox

In Lower Body Compound Exercises, like Squats, Deadlifts, etc., the Antagonist Muscles (Posterior Chain: Hamstrings, Glutes, Erectors, etc) are engaged and assist the Agonist Muscles (the Quads in the Squat).

Lombard's Paradox applies to the Deadlift, as well. The Deadlift is a Posterior Chain Exercise.

However, the Quad are engaged and assist in the Deadlift

Since the Antagonist Muscles in Lower Body Movement are engaged and assist, you don't want to overwork the Antagonist Muscles (as in Leg Curls) prior to performing your Agonist Exercise (your Squat, in this case).

Summary

This comes down to experimenting with Leg Curls prior to Squat to find out if it works for you.

The only way to know is to give it a shot.

"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing." Einstein

The take home message is. no matter how smart you are (Einstein), you still need to experiment with thing to really find out; like Boris said.

My suggesting are...

1) Don't overwork the Hamstrings with Leg Curls prior to Squats. That since the Posterior Chain (Hamstrings, Glutes, and Erectors) contribute to the Squat (Lombard's Paradox).

2) Neoprene Knee Sleeves

They provide some support for you knees and even more importantly, increase heat and blood flow to the area; which assist in recovery.