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Other/Mixed Leg exercises variations and knee safety

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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John Kowalski

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Although I don’t suffer from any serious knee injury, I expercience some mild knee aches occasionally and I want to fix that. I did some research and I would like to find out which of these movements are safe and which are not:

1. Steve Maxwell recommends a wall squat and wall sit variations for knee rehab and for folks with healthy knees, but I also read an opinions about them that they are potentially harmful for the patella, it goes like that: http://assets2.tribesports.com/syst...-1-minute-wall-squat-every-day-for-7-days.jpg
the shins and torso are vertical. It looks very similar to the smith machine squats, which are generally demonized.

2. Amosov squats, depends on how they are done, the shins and torso would be quite vertical too - just like in the wall squats.


3. Is there any need for squat variations with heels elevated, something like hindu squats? And which position is safer in general - vertical shin or knees going forward?

4. Bulgarian split squats and lunges - in most videos people do them with a vertical shin, weight on the heels and straight torso

I don’t see how it’s different from the angles in a smith machine squat or the wall squat. Any ideas on that?

Looking forward to your tips!
 
For me, using a full ROM with thighs just past parallel was very helpful compared to stopping with thighs parallel to the floor. Torso upright will generate more tension in the core, I would not expect an increase in shear force on the knee by itself.

I do find as the load goes up I tend not to drop as deep - with bodyweight I'll get my tailbone nearly to the floor, with a bunch of weight I drop till the thighs break parallel and back up.

I do have old injuries to my knee that largely went away after I began squatting low. I doubt this would be a help to everyone with knee pain though. I often have some pain when starting cold - it goes away after the joint warms up.
 
No exercise is 100% safe. Relative safety depends on a lot of interrelated factors, from exercise form, to loading, to programming, to individual anatomy/mobility/motor control ability/previous injury/training history, etc.

As a personal example, consider Hindu squats.

Hindu squats are great for my knees IF:
--I control the range of motion short of bouncing my hamstrings off my calves.
--I build volume gradually over time.

Hindu squats make my knees hurt IF:
--I drop loosely and bounce my hamstrings off my calves.
--I increase volume too quickly.

Is this a "safe" exercise? The answer is, "It depends." The answer is the same for every other exercise.

You repeatedly mention Smith machine squats, and they do have a bad reputation (I've never done them). I'm sure they are safe for at least some people under at least some conditions. Conversely, you can find reports of people getting hurt or experiencing discomfort as a result of literally ANY exercise you might name.
 
Great topic. I agree with @Steve W. above, but I would add something: Regarding knee health, and possibly any other body part, NOT doing should be considered as dangerous as doing. So if you ask "are squats dangerous" you should also ask "is not doing squats dangerous?".

I´ve had patellar tendinosis on both knees, and I my left knee is now cured. Of course it was cured by doing exercises, I dont think there is any other way of curing an injury. So as with most medicines, they can cure you or make you worst depending on the dose. Most of these exercises put stress on the joint. A given amount of stress will promote good adaptation to it, and improve function. More stress could be harmful. And no stress at all is harmful for sure.

My personal experience, having awful knees, is that all knee exercises are good for me, if they are properly planned. The only thing that is awful for me is bouncing on the knee, as Steve describes above.
 
I used to do Lumberjack Squats a lot. Load up a Landmine. Clean the bar up to your chest, and hold the bar like a Goblet Squat, and sit back into a Squat. Similar groove to a Wall Squat. They are good for building combos and complexes on also.

TKE, Band Terminal Knee Extensions, helped a lot with my knees or the years. When ever I got clicky or troublesome knees I did lots of TKE's and pigeon and hurdler stretch. During periods of intense training my hips would get very tight.

TKE's also help a lot in building strength and power off the floor, and for the Dip and Drive.
 
John Kowalski said:
The white guy can't even squat and yet he makes millions, genetics are underestimated.
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I wouldn't necessarily conclude that Porzingis can't squat. [You DID mean Porzingis by "the white guy," right? The tall(er) guy? The skinny guy? The Latvian guy? The second guy pictured in the article? The guy named Kristaps Porzingis?] It isn't clear from the photo what exactly he's doing, and the article has a humorous tone, making fun of athletes' touting their off court training on social media -- the picture of LeBron doesn't show him squatting either.

True, Porzingis is 7'3" in shoes (genetics), but he wouldn't be in the NBA if he didn't have the skills he does.
 
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@Steve W. he's indeed doing squats...



From what I read on the internet he's praised for his athleticism, yet he struggles badly with bodyweight squats...Really weird. It doesn't seem to hinder him on the court.
At 7'3 he clearly has to deal with unique challenges that we can't comprehend though.
 
Thanks @Kettlebelephant, I didn't even realize it was a video clip and just went by the still image.

To me, it looks like the trainer is pushing him (literally and figuratively) to stay very upright and not use his arms to counterbalance -- which isn't easy, especially at his height. I would infer that he isn't "learning to squat" as much as doing a specific variation to work on core strength.

I've seen virtually every game Porzingis has played in the US, including summer league games, and I'm a big fan. One thing he definitely has to work on physically is being able to strongly root and then hold position through his torso, instead of being pushed off the spot or getting bent over. I felt he improved on this a lot from his rookie year to last year, and I'm glad he hasn't succumbed to the common perception that he needs to "put on muscle." He needs to get functionally stronger for basketball, but I think it would be a mistake to chase hypertrophy at this point. He is very young and will naturally fill out as he gets older.
 
Steve W. said:
You DID mean Porzingis by "the white guy," right? The tall(er) guy? The skinny guy? The Latvian guy? The second guy pictured in the article? The guy named Kristaps Porzingis?
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Yea.

Steve W. said:
True, Porzingis is 7'3" in shoes (genetics), but he wouldn't be in the NBA if he didn't have the skills he does.
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I'm not saying he has no skills, I'm saying that he plays in nba while he is struggling with bodyweight squats. It's even more funny after years of reading about how strength training is super important for athletes :D
 
Kettlebelephant said:
From what I read on the internet he's praised for his athleticism, yet he struggles badly with bodyweight squats...Really weird.
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That's what I mean.

Kettlebelephant said:
It doesn't seem to hinder him on the court.
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I remember an interview with Michael Jordan where he talked about starting weightlifting after getting pwned by Pistons. Strength training wasn't popular among basketball players back then, but then MJ convinced his teammates to workout with him. They dominated the league ever since. It's funny considering that some people can't even dunk after years of strength training and these guys were capable of crazy hang times without even touching the weight.
Here's the video, MJ lifting weights, enojy :D:


Kettlebelephant said:
At 7'3 he clearly has to deal with unique challenges that we can't comprehend though.
Click to expand...
I don't know how it works.
 
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