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Kettlebell Life Protection System

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I've heard this criticism about some modern day jiujitsu schools. That many people are doing jiujitsu solely for sport and missing the "martial" part of the art all together.
Well, being a judo guy who has lots of friends and training partners in Jiu-jitsu, hehehe, I could write a few things here. I'll stop myself because it's not a martial arts forum but I will say that I'd encourage all BJJ students to practice more standing wrestling/judo because only feeling comfortable fighting on the ground has tactical and situational problems (even to some extent in BJJ matches!) Okay, one more, I'd also suggest trying to escape pins rather than counting on the opponent to change positions for you (as he tries for more points or a submission) to give you space to escape.
 
Well, being a judo guy who has lots of friends and training partners in Jiu-jitsu, hehehe, I could write a few things here. I'll stop myself because it's not a martial arts forum but I will say that I'd encourage all BJJ students to practice more standing wrestling/judo because only feeling comfortable fighting on the ground has tactical and situational problems (even to some extent in BJJ matches!) Okay, one more, I'd also suggest trying to escape pins rather than counting on the opponent to change positions for you (as he tries for more points or a submission) to give you space to escape.
When people ask me what martial art they should get their kids into so they can learn to handle themselves, I always recommend judo, & boxing. It’s cheap, builds confidence, is taught in nearly every aussie pcyc (police youth club), & they learn a lot in a short amount of time. I trained in many different arts, but what I learnt from judo & boxing got me out of more trouble on the street than anything else. Can be both defensive & brutally offensive.
 
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When people ask me what martial art they should get their kids into so they can learn to handle themselves, I always recommend judo, then boxing. It’s cheap, builds confidence, is taught in nearly every aussie pcyc (police youth club), & they learn a lot in a short amount of time. I trained in many different arts, but what I learnt from judo & boxing got me out of more trouble on the street than anything else. Can be both defensive & brutally offensive.
I agree 100%. Boxing is the fastest, most practical way to get ready to fight. Whenever I've gotten guys coming into the club who want to learn how to fight in a hurry, even though I'm no "real boxer" I have us both put boxing gloves on and we spar, as much as possible, as often as possible.

Not to say anything to be taken the wrong way, but BJJ is amazing for the fighting range it trains you for - lying on the ground with an attacker on top of you. The problem is that this is actually a position that while you should be able to get out of it when placed there, you also need to know how to avoid getting there in the first place! It is very limiting to only train on the ground, and also I think lop-sided to put so much emphasis on the bottom position. There are lots of tactical problems with this, let alone just getting stomped on! I think the original BJJ wasn't like this, but the sport made it so.
 
I enjoy Judo and believe that for practical self defense it is the best based on how it teaches you how to control your attacker starting from standing up. It has escapes and submissions that can subdue an attacker. At my BJJ school our instructors are all Judo Black Belts. They aren't going to win worlds, or even a regional contest, but they are all well versed in the standing art.
One common misconception in regards to BJJ is that there isn't much or any stand up grappling practiced. While not a huge focus, it is instructed. Depending on the BJJ instructors backround there is more or less. The Gracies don't teach a ton. The Ribero's and Machados teach a ton of stand up grappling.
My instructor received his Black Belt from Gustavo Machado who has a Black Bbelt in Judo and BJJ. He has a backround in Sambo as well. The first 1/2 to full hour of class is just Judo work and it isn't uncommon to spend a whole class on leg locks. Me having bad knees, usually skips that day or just watches.
 
Boxing is by far the fastest way to get someone off the base level.

It doesn't take much to adapt it for more street-smart application and combines well with a lot of other MA traditions.

That said I don't like teaching it to females for the most part and even smaller boned men I'll prime for using mostly jabs and knowing to choke up on their shots coming off the back hand. I don't even like to train those without using them more speed less power unless I'm going for a body shot.

Its not tough to convert boxing to more open hands for hooks and crosses, and the footwork is priceless.
 
Its not tough to convert boxing to more open hands for hooks and crosses, and the footwork is priceless.

Agreed, I need my hands to work, train and live. If I were forced into an altercation I'd be looking for positioning, angles and timing. Any head strikes would be palm heel as I just can't take the chance, OTOH if it was a fight for life and limb anything goes.

Most untrained people fight off balance, hyped up and tight which makes them easy to take advantage of, or they may rely on one strength, once you take that away they've been defeated in their minds, when that happens it's over (for them).
 
Agreed, I need my hands to work, train and live. If I were forced into an altercation I'd be looking for positioning, angles and timing. Any head strikes would be palm heel as I just can't take the chance, OTOH if it was a fight for life and limb anything goes.

Most untrained people fight off balance, hyped up and tight which makes them easy to take advantage of, or they may rely on one strength, once you take that away they've been defeated in their minds, when that happens it's over (for them).


I've adopted more of a choke up, don't plow through punching style with emphasis on accuracy and a lot of jabbing and lead hand punching, with my back hand shots coming across instead of straight in, so they don't break driving into a lot of support.

Of course this is theoretical for me as I haven't mixed it up in years and lot of how I train has to do with what I learned in those fights, not with how well my training at the time held up. With a few exceptions - staying on my feet, constant motion, facing the known threats and keeping hands up once the action starts. Bottom line, even somewhat impractical technique executed well can be effective but the important stuff has to work on autopilot if necessary.


I've practiced a good bit with palms but if I get my bell rung it's going to default to closed fist as I've just done too much of it over the years. I've also eaten a few directly into my face (I distinctly recall catching one with stop-motion-clarity view of hand filling my field of vision just before it landed ) and honestly they didn't really slow me down or hurt but did knock me off balance. Would be a different story to the side of the head or jaw.

Most street fighters are long on ambush and short on technique, but some can take a real licking too. It really comes down to the first solid hit to the temple or jaw, and numbers of course. I love my boxing footwork and preach it often - easy to learn and crazy useful once its ingrained - right up there with learning to cover/block and sprawl, maybe the most important of the three.
 
I agree 100%. Boxing is the fastest, most practical way to get ready to fight. Whenever I've gotten guys coming into the club who want to learn how to fight in a hurry, even though I'm no "real boxer" I have us both put boxing gloves on and we spar, as much as possible, as often as possible.

Not to say anything to be taken the wrong way, but BJJ is amazing for the fighting range it trains you for - lying on the ground with an attacker on top of you. The problem is that this is actually a position that while you should be able to get out of it when placed there, you also need to know how to avoid getting there in the first place! It is very limiting to only train on the ground, and also I think lop-sided to put so much emphasis on the bottom position. There are lots of tactical problems with this, let alone just getting stomped on! I think the original BJJ wasn't like this, but the sport made it so.

I totally agree, underemphasising takedowns is a bad idea if you are training for self defence purposes. I have ended physical altercations (in previous jobs as bouncer and prison guard) by throwing the attacker to the ground, which tends to be significantly harder than a mat. If any of the attackers did posess any groundfighting skills, they simply did not come into play on these occasions. Likewise, if you have never actually been hit or felt real stress and chaos in training, then you are not prepared for defending yourself, regardless of yout technical repertoire.

Having said that, my impression is that serious BJJ-practitioners more often than not crosstrain a lot.
 
I enjoy Judo and believe that for practical self defense it is the best based on how it teaches you how to control your attacker starting from standing up. It has escapes and submissions that can subdue an attacker. At my BJJ school our instructors are all Judo Black Belts. They aren't going to win worlds, or even a regional contest, but they are all well versed in the standing art.
One common misconception in regards to BJJ is that there isn't much or any stand up grappling practiced. While not a huge focus, it is instructed. Depending on the BJJ instructors backround there is more or less. The Gracies don't teach a ton. The Ribero's and Machados teach a ton of stand up grappling.
My instructor received his Black Belt from Gustavo Machado who has a Black Bbelt in Judo and BJJ. He has a backround in Sambo as well. The first 1/2 to full hour of class is just Judo work and it isn't uncommon to spend a whole class on leg locks. Me having bad knees, usually skips that day or just watches.
EXCELLENT!
 
I totally agree, underemphasising takedowns is a bad idea if you are training for self defence purposes. I have ended physical altercations (in previous jobs as bouncer and prison guard) by throwing the attacker to the ground, which tends to be significantly harder than a mat. If any of the attackers did posess any groundfighting skills, they simply did not come into play on these occasions. Likewise, if you have never actually been hit or felt real stress and chaos in training, then you are not prepared for defending yourself, regardless of yout technical repertoire.

Having said that, my impression is that serious BJJ-practitioners more often than not crosstrain a lot.
I agree on all points.
 
In truth most MA practitioners don't train to fight other MA's unless competition is their specific reason for training. Rarely (as in almost never) will an experienced practitioner start trouble, it's usually the tough guy wannabe's that do it.
 
In truth most MA practitioners don't train to fight other MA's unless competition is their specific reason for training. Rarely (as in almost never) will an experienced practitioner start trouble, it's usually the tough guy wannabe's that do it.
Martial arts are primarily for entertainment and exercise, but with the added benefit that they can protect you and yours in a low level encounter.
 
Drifting off topic a bit -

Many one on one "street fights" are more of a social experience and could be diffused or avoided if that was the absolute priority.

Is different if one is a bouncer or another step - LE where you not only have to engage if they don't comply, but have to take control of someone. Always best to have help!

Honestly I'm most concerned with knife (or improvised pointy object) and/or multiples, and surviving the initial 1/2 to 1 second. The attacker's effective skill level requirement goes way down under these conditions.

I've never faced a knife in anger, but a buddy of mine was actually attacked by a man using pepperspray and then pursued with large knife, and this while he was walking with his GF. Could barely see but managed to get up the steps on a porch and upend furniture to create a pocket, made a bunch of noise and fended the critter off with a chair for a few seconds before the perp took off due to the commotion. This was right around the corner from my apt and he made it to my place immediately after - I helped him detox.

I came across this piece from Scott Babb of Libre fighting systems relating to his pressure testing vs what his research indicated was a typical determined knife attack. I cut off the link as there is some brief, grainy footage of an actual encounter, but most is just observations and some footage of the initial testing.

The follow up was never released but as I understand the best solution they arrived at was some form of stop hit administered on the attacking arm/shoulder with intent to escape or transition to the head/neck if not an option. The lead/intercepting arm doesn't fare well, so time is of the essence.

His solution mirror what I was introduced to in class and used in sparring - off the line toward the attacker's knife hand (away from their free hand - very important as once they gain an attachment the survival rate plummets) and stop hit the bicep - transition as possible. Your interference hand is probably going to be cut. While the jaw is often no further than the bicep/upper arm, it is more important to stop the attacker's rhythm and initiative first and is often a far easier target to land on - a strike to the head that doesn't land solidly = more wounds = big gamble.

Some quotes from the project, is worth the 7 minutes to check it out if one has any interest or concern about this sort of thing:

"Every five seconds the defender was stabbed five to seven times..."

"every time it ended up in a grappling situation on the ground, the defender died"

"no appreciable difference in skill levels, system, experience, in the failure or success rate." (using technique the subjects had already been taught).

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zc6zPdXJyM
 
Our judo club ran some experiments a few times. We gave one guy a rubber knife and told him to stab others with it. No one was able to stop being "stabbed to death". No technique, nothing worked.

If you have someone who has drawn a knife but isn't really prepared to strike with it, I could see a disarming attack work because of his hesitation, but someone who is just coming in to pump you full of stabs, nope. Either flee, or die.
 
Our judo club ran some experiments a few times. We gave one guy a rubber knife and told him to stab others with it. No one was able to stop being "stabbed to death". No technique, nothing worked.

If you have someone who has drawn a knife but isn't really prepared to strike with it, I could see a disarming attack work because of his hesitation, but someone who is just coming in to pump you full of stabs, nope. Either flee, or die.

If an attacker attempts to stab or slash you he has to commit to the attack thereby leaving an opening to exploit, move and counterattack. I've spent many hours and years practicing knife defense, stab, slash, multiple slash, overhand, underhand, you name it.
I'm not saying I can't be stabbed but if I see it coming and have room to move I become a hard target. But that takes many years of specific training.
When an attacker has a knife in his hand that knife contains his spirit, he's vulnerable and he knows it. A well timed and powerful kihap can startle or shake an attacker, buying you precious milliseconds to take over. Sidesteps, low sweeps and dragon tails, kicking out knees, breaking joints. If I can get to his attacking side (as in beside him) he's dead
 
Drifting off topic a bit -

Many one on one "street fights" are more of a social experience and could be diffused or avoided if that was the absolute priority.

Is different if one is a bouncer or another step - LE where you not only have to engage if they don't comply, but have to take control of someone. Always best to have help!

Honestly I'm most concerned with knife (or improvised pointy object) and/or multiples, and surviving the initial 1/2 to 1 second. The attacker's effective skill level requirement goes way down under these conditions.

I've never faced a knife in anger, but a buddy of mine was actually attacked by a man using pepperspray and then pursued with large knife, and this while he was walking with his GF. Could barely see but managed to get up the steps on a porch and upend furniture to create a pocket, made a bunch of noise and fended the critter off with a chair for a few seconds before the perp took off due to the commotion. This was right around the corner from my apt and he made it to my place immediately after - I helped him detox.

I came across this piece from Scott Babb of Libre fighting systems relating to his pressure testing vs what his research indicated was a typical determined knife attack. I cut off the link as there is some brief, grainy footage of an actual encounter, but most is just observations and some footage of the initial testing.

The follow up was never released but as I understand the best solution they arrived at was some form of stop hit administered on the attacking arm/shoulder with intent to escape or transition to the head/neck if not an option. The lead/intercepting arm doesn't fare well, so time is of the essence.

His solution mirror what I was introduced to in class and used in sparring - off the line toward the attacker's knife hand (away from their free hand - very important as once they gain an attachment the survival rate plummets) and stop hit the bicep - transition as possible. Your interference hand is probably going to be cut. While the jaw is often no further than the bicep/upper arm, it is more important to stop the attacker's rhythm and initiative first and is often a far easier target to land on - a strike to the head that doesn't land solidly = more wounds = big gamble.

Some quotes from the project, is worth the 7 minutes to check it out if one has any interest or concern about this sort of thing:

"Every five seconds the defender was stabbed five to seven times..."

"every time it ended up in a grappling situation on the ground, the defender died"

"no appreciable difference in skill levels, system, experience, in the failure or success rate." (using technique the subjects had already been taught).

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zc6zPdXJyM

Slow connection, just watched the video, that's like a nightmare scenario of being stabbed in a phone booth. I agree it would be an ugly outcome.
What the video doesn't show is how the attacker got so close to begin with, how he got the free hand on the victim etc. Every video skips the lead up. It's like trying to block a punch if the attack is right in front of you within striking distance, you don't have time to see the attack, react and block, it's an impossible situation. You may as well be stabbed in the back. I would be attempting to escape in that horrible scenario. Essentially the close in prison shank surprise attack is deadly. If an attacker has a paw on you with the knife in the other hand you're in serious trouble.
 
From my experience if somebody’s got a knife & wants to stab you then you’re pretty much guna get stabbed. Just try & minimise the damage to the arms & keep it away from your torso. Running away didn’t work out for me as I got it in the back.
I haven’t really done any knife defence training but I’ve had one pulled on me multiple times, sometimes to scare other times with intentions of putting it in me. The most important thing I learnt & probably the hardest to train for was not to s*** yourself, & keep your head.
 
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