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Barbell Light and Heavy Days Question (Reload)

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Benjamin_K

Benjamin_K

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My squat is 315 1RM at the moment. My 5x5 goal is about 225-235. Weight jumps are about 15 lbs per week.
On week one HEAVY day I'm squatting 165. While on week one LIGHT day I'm squatting 205. It would take 4 weeks for me to get close to my LIGHT squatting days on this model.

Similar problems for other lifts as well. Has anyone else run into this problem? What can I tweak for it to make sense?

Note: I'm working off of the recommended percentages in Reload. So LIGHT=65% 1RM, HEAVY=80% 1RM (which in the squat example I reduced due to poor form at 250. But even if I did not reduce the weight to 225, the problem still persists)
 
I'm not exactly following your question. Maybe you just wrote the numbers down in the wrong order? Your numbers aren't too far off of the percentages of the reduced amount, but the labels are backwards somewhere. If HEAVY is 80% and you are using 250 for your 1RM, then it should be 200. Similarly, 65% is 162.5, which is close to what you gave.
 
My squat 1rm is 315. 80% of 315 is 250. I don't think I misread it, but it wouldn't be the first time, haha
 
If I’m reading the book correctly:

Week 4’s 5x5 should be your current 5RM, so ~275 x 5 x 5 for week 4.

If working back from there in 15lb increments, week 1 heavy would be 215, and you would go for a 5x5 PR @ 290 in week 5. Light would be 205x5x5for all 7 weeks.

Did you get 5 or less reps in your 80% test? The jumps are smaller if you get more reps at 80%, meaning the starting point is also higher if week 4’s target is held constant (current 5RM).

I could be misreading it though.
 
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Sean M said:
If I’m reading the book correctly:

Week 4’s 5x5 should be your current 5RM, so ~275 x 5 x 5 for week 4.

If working back from there in 15lb increments, week 1 heavy would be 215, and you would go for a 5x5 PR @ 290 in week 5. Light would be 205x5x5for all 7 weeks.

Did you get 5 or less reps in your 80% test? The jumps are smaller if you get more reps at 80%, meaning the starting point is also higher if week 4’s target is held constant (current 5RM).

I could be misreading it though.
Click to expand...

I don't know how I missed that Week 4 is supposed to be my current 5x5. I can't imagine hitting 290 5x5! I did not go above the 5 reps on the test, because the form was honestly not awesome. I'm 5'9 165...it's a bit heavy.
 
@Benjamin_K, how about if we press reset and go through the tests and the calculations that you did?
Below are some questions that should help.
  1. Your 1RM is 315. You tested it, so it is not a guess, right?
  2. If the answer to #1 is yes, then 80% of your 1RM is 252 (315x0.8), and you should have rounded that to 250, correct?
  3. If the answer to #2 is yes, then you should have tested your RM with 250. If yes, how many perfect reps was you able to perform?
Once you have provided your answer to the questions above I can move forwards with further questions and help you through the rest of the calculations.
Sounds like a plan?

I look forward to hearing back from you.
 
Fabio Zonin said:
@Benjamin_K, how about if we press reset and go through the tests and the calculations that you did?
Below are some questions that should help.
  1. Your 1RM is 315. You tested it, so it is not a guess, right?
  2. If the answer to #1 is yes, then 80% of your 1RM is 252 (315x0.8), and you should have rounded that to 250, correct?
  3. If the answer to #2 is yes, then you should have tested your RM with 250. If yes, how many perfect reps was you able to perform?
Once you have provided your answer to the questions above I can move forwards with further questions and help you through the rest of the calculations.
Sounds like a plan?

I look forward to hearing back from you.
Click to expand...

Hey, Fabio!

And yes to both numbers one and two. No guesses. I was able to do 4 perfect reps, IMHO, but the 5th was lacking in tension. Squats are my hardest lift :( What I've done so far is lower the percentage of the light days to 55 %. Bad idea?
 
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I have a calculating spreadsheet should anyone want it - saves a lot of work as you just need to add 1RM figure, 5RM and a figure which is calculated from your rep max with 80%.

Can email it to anyone who wants it (very simple to do though as only took me around ten minutes to set up)
 
Glen said:
I have a calculating spreadsheet should anyone want it - saves a lot of work as you just need to add 1RM figure, 5RM and a figure which is calculated from your rep max with 80%.

Can email it to anyone who wants it (very simple to do though as only took me around ten minutes to set up)
Click to expand...

Man, I suck at using spreadsheets. Just being honest.
 
Benjamin_K said:
Man, I suck at using spreadsheets. Just being honest.
Click to expand...

Using or setting up? I have three yellow boxes which you input specific numbers and the rest calculates your nine week loading for heavy and light days. Copy and paste calculated tables into a word doc for nine week plan fir each lift. Saves so much brain power once done IMO:D
 
Glen said:
I have a calculating spreadsheet should anyone want it - saves a lot of work as you just need to add 1RM figure, 5RM and a figure which is calculated from your rep max with 80%.

Can email it to anyone who wants it (very simple to do though as only took me around ten minutes to set up)
Click to expand...
I’ll take you up on your offer.
 
Glen said:
Using or setting up? I have three yellow boxes which you input specific numbers and the rest calculates your nine week loading for heavy and light days. Copy and paste calculated tables into a word doc for nine week plan fir each lift. Saves so much brain power once done IMO:D
Click to expand...

LOL! Ok, yes I think I can handle that.
 
godjira1 said:
View attachment 8077

Have a similar spreadsheet that took me maybe 10mins to write up. This is a KG so rounded to the nearest 2.5kg... for the guys on metric system.
Click to expand...
I may be misreading the book, but I don’t think week 1 is determined by the ramp-up percentages. I think you start at that percentage for your 5RM test to establish the 5x5 goal in week 4. Then back-track from week 4 to week 1 according to the weight increase as determined by the RM@80% test. So you need three tests before you can start: 1RM (to know 80%), 80% for reps, and sets of 5 until 5RM.
 
Benjamin_K said:
Hey, Fabio!

And yes to both numbers one and two. No guesses. I was able to do 4 perfect reps, IMHO, but the 5th was lacking in tension.
Click to expand...

Ok, so if you did 4 reps @80%1RM your Weekly Jump is 5% and your Ramp-up Baseline 60%.
315 x 5% = 15,75, so 15 works.
316 x 60% = 189, so 190 works.

Now your next step should have been, a few days after having tested your 5RM@80%, do your ramp-up towards your 5/5 goal at week #5.
So what you was supposed to do is:
  1. Perform 5 reps with 190.
  2. Rest at least 3 minutes.
  3. Add 15 to the bar.
  4. Perform 5 reps.
  5. Repeat steps 2 through 4 until you cannot do a set of 5 perfect reps.
Did you do this? If yes, what was the last weight that allowed you to complete 5 reps?

Let me know this and I'll help you move forward.

Benjamin_K said:
What I've done so far is lower the percentage of the light days to 55 %. Bad idea?
Click to expand...

I would say not useful. We need to figure out your right heavy day progression, that's the key!
 
Fabio Zonin said:
Ok, so if you did 4 reps @80%1RM your Weekly Jump is 5% and your Ramp-up Baseline 60%.
315 x 5% = 15,75, so 15 works.
316 x 60% = 189, so 190 works.

Now your next step should have been, a few days after having tested your 5RM@80%, do your ramp-up towards your 5/5 goal at week #5.
So what you was supposed to do is:
  1. Perform 5 reps with 190.
  2. Rest at least 3 minutes.
  3. Add 15 to the bar.
  4. Perform 5 reps.
  5. Repeat steps 2 through 4 until you cannot do a set of 5 perfect reps.
Did you do this? If yes, what was the last weight that allowed you to complete 5 reps?

Let me know this and I'll help you move forward.
Click to expand...

Yes, so this is where things went awry. Everything was tense, good depth, solid at 235. Then I barely did 2 reps at 250. Because I'm stubborn I did 3 bad reps afterwards.
 
Fabio Zonin said:
  1. Perform 5 reps with 190.
  2. Rest at least 3 minutes.
  3. Add 15 to the bar.
  4. Perform 5 reps.
  5. Repeat steps 2 through 4 until you cannot do a set of 5 perfect reps.
Click to expand...
Same Training Session

So, the progression in the same training session of sets of 5 would be: 190, 205, 220, 235, 250? While this will increase strength, it is somewhat counter productive for optimizing strength.

The Objective

One of the keys for increasing strength is to, at some point in a Periodization Training Cycle, use the heaviest load/weight for the number or repetition chosen.

Performing progressive sets recommend above ensure that you heaviest top set is going to be less than it could be, due to muscle fatigue.

Your going to pushing or pulling the heaviest load for the most repetition in a set when you are fresh.

That is best accomplished by preforming the minimal amount of warm ups necessary to get you to your heaviest top set.

Secondly, muscle fatigue alters technique and the muscle firing sequence changes. That is one of the issues of pushing an exercise to failure.

Inverted Pyramid Warm Ups

This method ensure that your top set in an exercise, truly is your heaviest set.\

Squat Training Example

Set 1: 135 X 5

Set 2: 175 X 2

Set 3: 200 X 1

Set 3: 225 X 1

Set 5: 250 plus X 5

Your top set of 250 can be followed with some drop sets of Squats or an Auxiliary Squat Exercise.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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Benjamin_K said:
Everything was tense, good depth, solid at 235. Then I barely did 2 reps at 250.
Click to expand...

250 X 2

The reason that you only squeezed out 250 X 2 was due the fact that you expended your energy and strength with 235.

Track Sprinter Analogy

Your program amount to a 100 meter Sprint trying to obtain his best time.

His progression prior to the 100 meter Sprint is running: 1500 meters, 800 meters, 400 meters and
meters prior to his meters.

To reiterate what I stated in my previous post, optimal strength (anything) is produce when you are fresh.

One more thing...

Active Recovery Light Day

The purpose of a Light Training Day is for Active Recovery; increasing blood flow to the muscles. Increased blood flow to the muscles promotes recovery and eliminates metabolites; take out the garbage.

Auto-Regulation

The Light Day need to be Light; 60% of 1 RM usually falls into the light category.

However, 60% of 1RM is something cut into stone.

A Light Day need to feel light.

If you haven't if you haven't recovered from a heavy training session or you feel lethargic, go with what feel light; Auto-Regulate.

That means once the weight, no matter what the percentage is, start to feel heavy on your Light Day, Stop!

Pushing yourself on a Light Day that doesn't feel light, impedes recovery for your heavy day, Overtraining. Overtrainng is a downward spiral; lifting less and feeling tired.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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kennycro@@aol.com said:
Same Training Session

So, the progression in the same training session of sets of 5 would be: 190, 205, 220, 235, 250? While this will increase strength, it is somewhat counter productive for optimizing strength.

The Objective

One of the keys for increasing strength is to, at some point in a Periodization Training Cycle, use the heaviest load/weight for the number or repetition chosen.

Performing progressive sets recommend above ensure that you heaviest top set is going to be less than it could be, due to muscle fatigue.

Your going to pushing or pulling the heaviest load for the most repetition in a set when you are fresh.

That is best accomplished by preforming the minimal amount of warm ups necessary to get you to your heaviest top set.

Secondly, muscle fatigue alters technique and the muscle firing sequence changes. That is one of the issues of pushing an exercise to failure.

Inverted Pyramid Warm Ups

This method ensure that your top set in an exercise, truly is your heaviest set.\

Squat Training Example

Set 1: 135 X 5

Set 2: 175 X 2

Set 3: 200 X 1

Set 3: 225 X 1

Set 5: 250 plus X 5

Your top set of 250 can be followed with some drop sets of Squats or an Auxiliary Squat Exercise.

Kenny Croxdale
Click to expand...
I believe it’s just for one session, to find a “technical” 5RM to be able to set a 5x5 goal for week 4 (you lift 5x5 in week 4 what you can do just one set of 5 for in week 0). I don’t believe you use that scheme every session as the warm-up.

Like I said, my read of the program is 3 tests per lift:
1) 1RM to know 80% (and also light day weight)
2) Rep max at 80% to determine %/weight jumps week to week
3) 5RM to “center” the program progression around: week 4 5x5 @ current 5RM, work back to determine week 1 weight, work forward to determine week 5-7 weight

Again, I could be misreading it all, but if I am right, I hope it can clear up any confusion.
 
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