Old Forum Long Cycle, 50 reps, 2x24k

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

AndyMcL

Level 6 Valued Member
Terrific control and consistency; your reps 9miutes in looked just like your reps in the first minute. Keep this focus up and you'll be at 60 in no time.
 

Jason Ginsberg

Level 4 Valued Member
Great stuff Steve! I'm not a GS person, but I've taken some lessons from GS coaches, and I've found it tremendously helpful in understanding what we do in hardstyle. I have tremendous respect for GS; it is a unique combination of technique, discipline, and attributes and is a very demanding sport. Rank 1 is around the corner; I look forward to seeing you make CMS after that!
 

23rdwave

Level 5 Valued Member
All World Kettlebell Competitions cancelled.

http://worldkettlebellclub.com/kettlebell-sport-manifesto/?utm_source=Copy+of+Copy+of+Copy+of+Spring+Newsletter&utm_campaign=Blog&utm_medium=email
 

Physical Culture

Level 6 Valued Member
Nick, this is certainly an interesting development.  I've been following Fedorenko's announcement for a couple of days now.  He has abolished his ranking system, cancelled his meets, renounced several of his titles, and denounced almost all other organizations as fraudulent.  His stated purpose is to get GS into the Olympics.  His interaction with critics on Facebook has also been quite colorful.

It did  not appear that he had very many meets scheduled, at least at the local level.  Several gyms that used to host WKC meets in California, Texas, Georgia, and North Carolina that I know of are now hosting meets sponsored by AKA.

The jury is still out on what will become of all this, but it seems likely that the sport will move on without him, under the leadership of organizations like IKFF and AKA.
 

Jeff

Level 6 Valued Member
Steve,

I've watched your video several times over the past few days.  That is awesome in several different ways.  What kind of changes do you notice in how you feel throughout the day as a result of this type of training?
 

Physical Culture

Level 6 Valued Member
Thanks, Jeffrey.  I appreciate your compliment, though in the GS world, 50 reps with 2x24k is awesome for a Russian middle school student. Nevertheless, it's a good accomplishment for me.

As far as the effects of this training, several come to mind. The first is increased muscularity throughout my shoulder girdle, traps, and upper legs.  My wife and others have commented on it, so its not all in my head.  The second is my breathing.  I seem to breathe more deeply and slowly during the day when I'm not exerting myself.  It's hard to explain, but I'm sure you and others will understand, but I walk around feeling stronger.

I actually had a WTH moment  a few days ago.  I have not touched a jump rope in probably six months.  In a few weeks I'll have limited access to kettlebells, and this cycle will have ended, so I'll probably jump rope for conditioning.  I got it out for a little practice.  At my best, I was good for about 30 seconds before my bounce was not springy enough to keep rhythm and holding my core steady was difficult.  This time, I jumped for a straight minute without missing a beat.  I felt like I could jump all day (of course, I could n0t).  Increased core and leg strength is to credit, I think.

On the other hand, other areas have suffered.  Before this training cycle, I was good for 20 dips and 10 chins just about any day.  It's closer to half that now, since I have not been training grinds very much.  I have not tested pressing or deadlifting lately, but I have a feeling that my deadlift has increased, but my press has decreased.  In the double clean, there is some element of momentum, but you really do have to pull hard, so I've been doing a lot of pulls with 106 and 88 pounds this cycle.  In the jerk, however, once you get the right push with the hips, there's not a lot of shoulder or arm strength required.   As my technique improves, I find that I use my shoulders less and less.  They are getting a little stronger, I'm sure, and less is required of them as my rhythm and leg strength improve, but I think my press has probably stagnated.  Again, I've not tested it.

The great irony is that I'm due to hit 60 reps, which is the requirement for Rank 1 in the WKC this week or next week, and last week, Fedorenko eliminated the ranking system.  I was planning to send in a video for Rank 1 when I hit it.  Now 60 reps is something of an arbitrary number for me.
 

Phil12

Level 8 Valued Member
Oh come on Steve, give yourself a little credit — that’d have to be a pretty big middle schooler ;)
 

Jeff

Level 6 Valued Member
Steve,

I wonder if you could alternate blocks of GS with blocks of grinds, or would that mess up your GS?
 

Physical Culture

Level 6 Valued Member
It could probably be done, Jeffrey, as in ROTK.  Gains would come more slowly in each area, but if maintaining balance between them were important, that would be a viable method, as would "grease the groove" pressing.  I've been focused on GS lately because I want to move up in rank.

Update on pressing strength.  Last night some friends were over and I was showing them my kettlebells.  I pressed the 28k for three reps with my left hand, and pressed the 32k once with my right (could have done probably 3 or 4 reps).  I bent pressed my 49k bell once with my right.   So I probably have not lost as much strength as I thought!
 

kris

Level 3 Valued Member
Hi Steeve, don't know your weight but you are closed to CMS rank one, " unified ranking table ",nearly there, good job !
 

Physical Culture

Level 6 Valued Member
Thanks, Christine.  I'm in the 85k class.  In most Russian tables and the American Kettlebell Alliance (which sanctions the two meets I'm in this fall) I need 57 reps for Rank 1.  In the IKFF, 54 reps.  I'm close.  I'm hoping to be lifting 28k's on the platform in late October.
 

Jeff

Level 6 Valued Member
Steve,

Oly Lifting currently consists of the snatch and C&J, both ballistic lifts.  Used to include C&P, a grind.  With Oly Lifting only including ballistic lifts now, I guess it is similar to GS, but different in that the lifts are for 1RM rather than for time and reps like GS.  Since the C&P has been dropped from Oly Lifting, I wonder how many lifters still train grinds outside of squat variations.  Records continue to be broken in the snatch and C&J, even after the C&P has been eliminated from competition.  Do you know if the top Oly Lifting teams still press in their training?  Do those Russian middle schoolers supplement their GS with presses?  I know very well that you are plugged into the best Russian GS coaching, so I am not suggesting that you don't know what you are talking about.  I had assumed that training grinds would be a useful supplement to the ballistics, but I don't know.
 

Physical Culture

Level 6 Valued Member
Jeffrey,   presses used to be part of GS as well.  They contested a one arm press for reps, under the same rules as the snatch- max reps, one hand switch.  It was dropped for the same reason that the Olympic press was dropped- judging difficulties.    Now that it is not contested, few GS coaches prescribe it.

It stands to reason that being stronger in a movement like the press would improve the jerk and snatch, and that training the press would be beneficial. In the early 90's, several Russian sports scientists formulated strength standards for GS. However, Rudnev and Lopatin did a study and wrote an article about this.  Lopatin was a world champion in GS, and fell well below the published strength standards.  The only area in which he exceed the standard was running.  The published standard called for "Junior ranking", and Lopatin qualified with "Adult ranking" (if these terms were defined in the article, I missed it).  The article is at: http://www.iksfa.com/drupal/index.php?q=node/58

Some nuggets to give you the gist of their findings:

"Thus, strength endurance is not a determining factor in Kettlebell Sport lifting. It only allows you to perform at fast tempo for 1-3 minutes. For Kettlebell Sport lifting is required endurance which allow to perform 10 minutes of competition time.. Therefore, we should talk about the special endurance, which is necessary to work with pauses between repetitions sufficient for recovery to the next repetition (tempo of snatch, jerk)) (Lopatin, 2000; Romashin, 1991). Exceeding the optimum tempo for the athlete and is the main cause of fatigue and premature termination of the 10-minutes set, rather than lack of development of strength endurance, mental strength or motivation, as noted in their studies Vinogradov (1998). "

"Thus, the importance of strength component to produce force output In Kettlebell Sport lifting is not determinative, as indicated by most researchers. Localization of muscle strength of Kettlebell Sport lifter is defined by distribution of slow and fast twitch fibers which means that the development of strength required a level not exceeding 70% of maximum voluntary force (MVF) (Platonov, 1997). "

In short, they determined that strength (such as presses and squats) only benefit the lifter in GS up to a point, and that that threshold is pretty low.  They credit special endurance (i.e., cardiovascular endurance, grip endurance, etc.), recovery ability, and pacing as determinative factors in GS success.  The world champion in his weight class could not meet the proposed strength standards, but exceeded the cardiovascular endurance standards.

Your question was about grinds as a useful supplement to ballistics.  The article's answer would be that once an athlete is strong enough, grinding strength no longer adds reps to high rep ballistic lifting.

 
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Top Bottom