all posts post new thread

Other/Mixed Looking for a minimalist approach to S&C in martial arts

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

txolillo

Level 1 Valued Member
Hi!

I was just thinking a couple of things about my training and I wanted to start some discussion here.

I've been doing Simple KettleBell Training at home. I achieved the goal in swings and almost in TGU (I had some problems in my left wrist that made a bit uncomfortable the TGU). But I had to stop training at home. I have a daughter (16 months old) and I can only train while she is at home. And it started to be a headache to train while she was running, shouting or destroying. Difficult to concentrate on a 32kg TGU with this Little Wonderful Devil at home :)

So I started to look for things out of home. First, I decided to join the academy of a former MMA fellow who's giving lessons on boxing, Krav Maga and ACT (armed combat tactics, knives, machetes and so on, very funny). So I go there twice a week on lunch time, 2 hours boxing and 2 hours Krav/ACT. But I started to think how to have a better strenght and power training to transfer to my sports.

A new Crossfit box opened two blocks away from home. I went there but it's my second time in CF and I still don't like it. I like all the "toys" they have, but not the Wods philosophy and how it's managed. I'd love to just go on my own, but going 100% on your own is kind of expensive (120€/month). I found a "globo gym" with a basic rack structure that can work, 30€/month, kettlebells until 24kg . So I was thinking that maybe I could restart combining some barbell training in the gym and maybe try to find time to do the KB at home when my daughter is in kindergarten.

All this made me think, how could one do some strength and conditioning complete training for martial arts? I read the Joel Jameson book on MMA, also Loren Landow, and this gave me ideas. For conditioning I have clear that 2 hours boxing and 2 hours "kraving" it's kind of enought. Thing would be something to complete and periodice strength and power basically. I have at home KB until 32kg and sandbag of 15kg. And the chance of a globogym with a rack not far away.

I don't know if it could be better just to restart S&S , but I'm also eager of some barbell. Thing might be how to combine everything better. How would you do it?

In fact I'm not looking for answers only for me, I'm trying to design a very good minimalist but effective and fun S&C for "aficionado warriors" like me, something everybody could use. Maybe we can create it
 
I'm a short and squat product of barbell and dumbbell training so probably the last person who should be commenting on this thread but so many martial arts dudes I've met have had awesome physiques from nothing more than their sport plus basic body weight exercises (eg push ups, chin ups, sit ups) sprinting and jogging. You can't get more minimalist than that
 
txolillo said:
Hi!

I was just thinking a couple of things about my training and I wanted to start some discussion here.

I've been doing Simple KettleBell Training at home. I achieved the goal in swings and almost in TGU (I had some problems in my left wrist that made a bit uncomfortable the TGU). But I had to stop training at home. I have a daughter (16 months old) and I can only train while she is at home. And it started to be a headache to train while she was running, shouting or destroying. Difficult to concentrate on a 32kg TGU with this Little Wonderful Devil at home :)

So I started to look for things out of home. First, I decided to join the academy of a former MMA fellow who's giving lessons on boxing, Krav Maga and ACT (armed combat tactics, knives, machetes and so on, very funny). So I go there twice a week on lunch time, 2 hours boxing and 2 hours Krav/ACT. But I started to think how to have a better strenght and power training to transfer to my sports.

A new Crossfit box opened two blocks away from home. I went there but it's my second time in CF and I still don't like it. I like all the "toys" they have, but not the Wods philosophy and how it's managed. I'd love to just go on my own, but going 100% on your own is kind of expensive (120€/month). I found a "globo gym" with a basic rack structure that can work, 30€/month, kettlebells until 24kg . So I was thinking that maybe I could restart combining some barbell training in the gym and maybe try to find time to do the KB at home when my daughter is in kindergarten.

All this made me think, how could one do some strength and conditioning complete training for martial arts? I read the Joel Jameson book on MMA, also Loren Landow, and this gave me ideas. For conditioning I have clear that 2 hours boxing and 2 hours "kraving" it's kind of enought. Thing would be something to complete and periodice strength and power basically. I have at home KB until 32kg and sandbag of 15kg. And the chance of a globogym with a rack not far away.

I don't know if it could be better just to restart S&S , but I'm also eager of some barbell. Thing might be how to combine everything better. How would you do it?

In fact I'm not looking for answers only for me, I'm trying to design a very good minimalist but effective and fun S&C for "aficionado warriors" like me, something everybody could use. Maybe we can create it
Click to expand...

I don't believe you can make a one-stop complete S&C for MA.

Different MA emphasize different attributes. Some of the conditioning could be considered common, but the demands of a boxer vs FMA vs grappeling dominant etc are going to do best with different variations IMHO.

When I was most into MA I did about 2 days/week strength training in addition to skills and endurance - basic dumbbell stuff for upper body, lower body was pretty well covered with all the kicking, running, and bicycle. Spent a lot of time on speed drills.
 
Hi! Thank you both for your reply. Well, yes, maybe there is not a definitive thing, but sure there is something good.

For example, I read some Pavel interviews. In one of them he says that if he could only do two exercises, he'd do deadlift and swings. In other, he says that one guy should be able to deadlift double his weight and do ten strict pullups. So this kind of tells me that pullups, swings and deadlift are three basics.

So I guess I'm looking for a mix, between calisthenics, kb, barbell... what three or four exercises are the best of the best of minimalism? Thats a good question :)
 
I'd love to give the LCCJ protocol a shot. Currently trying to strengthen my right shoulder. I tore the labrum throwing a baseball at my son's practice, man I would like a do over for that day.

My shoulders never felt better than doing S&S and ROP with a lighter bell. Now I'm GTG'ing double presses with Justas singles protocol with heavy swings and going no heavier than 32 get-up on alternate days.

It seems that pulls are better for me and MA related training right now. Hoping to nurse the shoulder back to strong. After the injury it was tough getting 5 painful reps with 16. Now I can get a few with 24. It's a delicate balance of pushing just enough and staying under the inflammation threshold. I got brave and push pressed a 32 without damage. So there's hope..
 
Look up "Steve Baccari Program Minimum"
I know we tend to recommend swings + getups a lot, but the PM ala Steve Baccari isn't some "theoretically it should work" kind of thing. He came up with it and used it on a variety of fighters and everybody got better.
 
offwidth said:
Torn labrum's don't repair themselves. Appropriate stretching and strengthening however can go a long way to make a shoulder serviceable again.
Click to expand...

Yes sir, it's getting stronger slowly. I had no problem supporting 40k get-ups not long ago. I just cut back the weight recently as I don't want to push it too hard while doing higher press volume on other days.

Progress has been slow and steady. Stretching, hangs, Indian clubs, get-ups and mobility work ala Jeff Neupert's programs. I'm looking at mace training at some point as well. If I do that I'll have to subtract something else. I'm doing a chain of dc&p+dfs+pull-up (Renegades on alternate training sessions) for 30 repeats A+A style. HR target from 112 to 130 with 16 and 20k bells. Takes 37 mins.

The GTG effect is it's tightening up my shoulders in a good way. Doubles are less painful. The lighter weight with more volume more often has provided much better results. Truly 'greasing the groove' very well ..
 
Hi again! Lots of interesting posts, and this is helping me a lot, specially the links!

I've read all the links and also re-read Jamieson and Landow books on MMA s&c. As MMA is complete, this might be the example, but the goal is to try to simplify and make it minimalist but effective.

Jamieson is great explaining our energy systems, but the exercises he proposes are all but minimalist. Landow is more simple, and talks about different kinds of periodization. He talks about daily undulation , train three days, one for muscular endurance, one strength and one power and speed. None of them talks about kettlebells (but I'll use them no doubt).

I've read also in this forum on planning, periodization and so on. Also on the Tactical Strength Challenge wich I think can be very helpful. One thing that its clear is that deadlifts and pullups should be in the plan. For power we have different options, swings, clean and jerks or snatches with the kettlebell. I think these three are the holy trinity of Strong First. This, completed with maybe some accesory things like sandbag, jumps or ball slams can make it all.

For conditioning, two days boxing and two days kravmaging should be enough. In boxing as you know is interval training, 3 minutes active 1 rest, and my coach is very intense.

I think that I have lots of info and now my goal is to synthesize and reduce it to maximum 4-5 things, and later on play with it, and that might be all!
 
I talked with my coach on this subject. I was afraid cause most of the martial arts coaches that I met in Madrid are kind of "circuit circuit circuit nuts", but this one is also a learner and student of s&c. So I asked him what is his training and he said:

- A base of strentgth training, mostly deadlifts and some squatting.
- KB power training: swings, cleans, snatch.
- Some calisthenics when he is up to it.
- Circuits only when he thinks he's not spending the time needed on the mats.

So, simple and easy.

This made me arrive to a conclusion: some tactical strength challenge training plans, playing with some variations when desired, could be the best simple way to go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JXS
txolillo said:
I talked with my coach on this subject. I was afraid cause most of the martial arts coaches that I met in Madrid are kind of "circuit circuit circuit nuts", but this one is also a learner and student of s&c. So I asked him what is his training and he said:

- A base of strentgth training, mostly deadlifts and some squatting.
- KB power training: swings, cleans, snatch.
- Some calisthenics when he is up to it.
- Circuits only when he thinks he's not spending the time needed on the mats.

So, simple and easy.

This made me arrive to a conclusion: some tactical strength challenge training plans, playing with some variations when desired, could be the best simple way to go.
Click to expand...

What you are describing is basically Pavel's Total Package weekly template: Total Package Weekly Kettlebell Training Template | StrongFirst
 
For whats its worth S&S did wonders for my BJJ and Boxing S&C. You'll hear it a ton but it works. My rolling cardio was outstanding while I was still training both often. MA is just a different activity and it depends on your art. I don't think you'll do poorly with the program @Pavel Macek has developed.
 
Hi again and thanks for the new replies!

One thing that I love on this situations is that I start to read a lot on programming, training and so on. I've read a lot of Strongfirst articles and also other websites, and Dan John "Intervention" book, so this is very stimulating.

I need to be minimalist but effective and I've been reading and thinking and reading again. And this is what I'm going to do:

3 days training, alternating this 2

1.- Barbell Day: Focus on Deadlift and some press. Don't know if bench press or bentpress.

2.- Kettlebell Day: Restart "Simple". I've found out that 2 months of crossfit has made me weaker! I have to go again with the 28kg kettlebell. So I'll go "simple" again. Maybe alternating, one "hard day" trying to play strength with the 32kg (2-3 reps) and one "medium day" going with the normal schedule, 100 swings and 10 TGU.

Also, I've read that pullups are a "basic" for Pavel, so I'm also going to try the fighters pull-up with a GTG approach. Not in the same session, or yes, depending on my available time. I've got a pullup bar so it's not difficult for me just to do 5-4-3-2-1 pullups or whatsoever whenever I have available time.

With this in mind, all the extrawork is accesory. I mean, if someday I feel like box jumping, I'll do it. If I feel like ball slamming, I'll do it, if I feel like sprinting, I'll do it. But the "mandatory" it's going to be the "Barbell-Kettle-Pullups". No hurries, I want to own the movements, whenever I finish I'll do other things.

@ShawnM , I do boxing and krav maga and my krav maga master is a "hardstyle". MMA inspired, lots of grappling and full contact sparring with high intensity (with protections, but full throttle)
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom