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Kettlebell Looking for some Advice

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Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Hi all. I'm finding that because of so much judo training, I'm missing too many days of kettlebell exercise. S&S is a bit much to do on the same day as judo training, for example. This is because the 2 moves are done to the point of near exhaustion. (I do S&S a minimum of twice a week as per the book.)

What I'm looking for is some other routine for days I'm tired from judo that will have REAL BENEFITS for my judo and overall health, but is less exhausting and possibly more varied(?), and likely will take less time to complete therefore.

For instance, 40 swings and 4 TGUs I can do any time, and day. It's going beyond this minimal amount where the "real" exercise happens. But, this is also where the overexhaustion happens.

I noticed the result of not doing my one hand swings for a while when I pulled a muscle a few days ago that is normally kept strong with 1 handed swings.

Should I just do a daily minimum of 40 swings and 4 TGUs? Would this be logical?
 

Anders

Level 5 Valued Member
I had a bit of a similar situation when I trained both Krav maga and submission wrestling and still wanted to train with kettlebells. I trained these things four times a week. And then I trained kettlebells two times during the week, and in the week-ends. In the krav maga training there was also these all out training times, like 40 push ups, and 40 air-squats. These would greatly impair my recovery so I tried to skip them or reduce my effort there. Maybe you could do something similar in some of your judo excersises that you find redundant or just plain contraproductive.

There is also the difference I guess in your judo practice between doing Judo in a semi-competitive way where you try to "compete" with your mates, and win (creates great fatigue) or just practicing some move and sparring in a more friendly exploring way. If possible maybe go more for the practicing way and less for the "competing" and excersising way ?

***
And finally you could take a look at all the other parameters of your life. But maybe first ask yourself: Do you think your recovery rate or tendency to be tired is normal for your age-group or do you become more tired than other people in your age group ?

If you become more easilier tired maybe look at the other aspects of your life like job stress, eating habits, sleeping habits etc etc and see if you can adjust them.

These are just my opinions. Hope they can be to some help.
 

Geoduck

Level 1 Valued Member
You could always focus 100% on mobility, movement, and cardio outside of judo. Something like a nice active movement routine, static stretching, light kb swings.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I'm not feeling "tired" but rather my muscles are getting so much exercise in judo that it's clearly too much to push myself through full S&S routines more than twice a week on off days. But, that's not enough strength training I think.

Maybe just the reduced S&S might do the trick.
 

Sauli

Level 8 Valued Member
I'm not feeling "tired" but rather my muscles are getting so much exercise in judo that it's clearly too much to push myself through full S&S routines more than twice a week on off days. But, that's not enough strength training I think.

Maybe just the reduced S&S might do the trick.
Thierry Sanchez progressed very well doing s&s 3 times a week. He did also lower volume. 60 swings and 6 get ups.
You could also consider grease the groove.
 

ali

Level 6 Valued Member
I agree.....S&S is about not going anywhere near exhaustion, so cut the volume sure but why not drop a bell size or two? Turn into a more restorative thing to help with the judo.
I can see and get going all out on swings and very heavy get ups would be exhausting but that isn't S&S.....you are not doing S&S if this is the case.
 

WhatWouldHulkDo

Level 7 Valued Member
How about just increasing the rest cycles in your S&S practice? To me, there's a huge difference completing the swings in 5 minutes vs. 10. I'm sure judo is putting plenty of tax on your conditioning, maybe let the S&S be more about strength with full recovery?

Doesn't satisfy the "less time to complete" factor, of course.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
No, S&S alone wasn't causing "exhaustion" - it's doing so much judo that reusing many of the same muscles again for S&S is kind of overdoing it and making it hard to do the full set of moves most days of the week. Yes, I could drop down to the 24kg bell, which is very light for me, and go through the moves, but I worry that the strength-building benefits just wouldn't be there. Something about sticking with the 40kg bell but doing less than full sets with it seems appealing. I just wasn't sure if this was a sound practice - I certainly notice that the first 40% of S&S is not challenging. Once past that point, I feel like I'm "getting a workout". Maybe that's why Thierry Sanchez stuck with the 60% programme instead of only 40%. Interesting. 60% of the sets would definitely push me a bit. Hmmm... this might be the thing.

I don't know what a humane burpee is, hehehe. Sounds inhumane.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@Kozushi, consider a simple change - go with sets of 5 swings instead of 10. That should let you keep your current working weight. Keep the total volume the same, just halve the reps and double the sets. You may even find you can go with a heavier weight sometimes.

Note that this will increase the time you spend on your S&S, and if you want to go with 60 swings instead of 40, it will increase the time even further. The idea is that you'll take almost the same rest periods as you've been taking with sets of 10 swings but you'll feel fresher as you begin each set and less fatigued at the end.

-S-
 

Ian V

Level 5 Valued Member
"I don't know what a humane burpee is, hehehe. "

Here you go ............

danjohn.net/2017/03/humane-burpee/

Enjoy
 

sizzlefuzz

Level 6 Valued Member
@Kozushi I felt like I was in a similar boat when I was grinding hard with S&S & preparing for BJJ competition. Lately I've dropped kettlebell work back to 1-2 days a week and focused the other days on training SFB skills (pistol, OAPU). I feel like I recover much better training the SFB skills than I did aiming for S&S 4-5x per week. Also, SFB skill training is really fun!
 

Tarzan

Level 6 Valued Member
I'm currently working with some BJJ guys to tailor a strength & conditioning program specific to their sport , so I have a personal interest in this thread. It's a different dynamic to Judo but similar in many respects. It's still early days yet but we're starting to identify a few key areas where they all seem to be lacking in strength. The main areas are grip, bent arm strength, strength at lockout and rotational strength.

I'm not an SFG and I don't have any current certifications anymore, so I'm not trying to present myself as an expert by any standards. I've never been anywhere sinister either, so maybe I'm not qualified to even speak about this.

I have to question whether S&S is really appropriate for grappling arts, sure it will get as strong as an ox and get you in good shape but it doesn't seem like the best fit for those sports to me. If that level of kettlebell training is too taxing then maybe it's time re-assess your program.
 

Tarzan

Level 6 Valued Member
Haven't you noticed an incredible increase in finger strength ? That, and shoulder strength from Get Ups, would make it just fine for grappling sports imho.

Yeah for sure but I can do other grip specific work that isn't so hard on everything else. The TGU's are going to be the basis of my program that I'm planning for them & it will include swings or snatches but the volume of S&S just seems like to it's too much to me, especially when you get to the level @Kozushi is at with a 40 kg bell.
 

Marc

Level 6 Valued Member
+1 for the human burpee

If you do a lot of judo, then maybe just stay with 2x S&S per week. That seems to be enough. Just do your full S&S 2x/week and save your enery for judo.
 

jake54

Level 5 Valued Member
Do you need to eat more or get more sleep? (quality) That would be my first question. SS and Judo shouldn't be too much.
 
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