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Kettlebell Looking for some Advice

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Shawn90

Level 5 Valued Member
s but the volume of S&S just seems like to it's too much to me

@Kozushi
Interesting. 60% of the sets would definitely push me a bit. Hmmm... this might be the thing.

I don't see why S&S sessions have to be the full 100/10 reps to work. Frequency is more important and by reducing the total volume you can increase the frequency. Cutting the reps in half and doubling the sets won't work in his case. The damage will be the same.
 

NE Comrade

Level 1 Valued Member
I'm a combat instructor and train 6 days a week with S and S and at 59 yrs feel the best ever, far better than weight training. The core strength adds so much to my combat training I wish I'd started years ago! I find Im recovered and OK to train within the hour of S and S perhaps you are over training a bit, try dropping a size or two on the KB's
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
@Kozushi, consider a simple change - go with sets of 5 swings instead of 10. That should let you keep your current working weight. Keep the total volume the same, just halve the reps and double the sets. You may even find you can go with a heavier weight sometimes.

Note that this will increase the time you spend on your S&S, and if you want to go with 60 swings instead of 40, it will increase the time even further. The idea is that you'll take almost the same rest periods as you've been taking with sets of 10 swings but you'll feel fresher as you begin each set and less fatigued at the end.

-S-
So 40 swings in sets of 5, and 4 TGUs (2L 2R)?
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I'm currently working with some BJJ guys to tailor a strength & conditioning program specific to their sport , so I have a personal interest in this thread. It's a different dynamic to Judo but similar in many respects. It's still early days yet but we're starting to identify a few key areas where they all seem to be lacking in strength. The main areas are grip, bent arm strength, strength at lockout and rotational strength.

I'm not an SFG and I don't have any current certifications anymore, so I'm not trying to present myself as an expert by any standards. I've never been anywhere sinister either, so maybe I'm not qualified to even speak about this.

I have to question whether S&S is really appropriate for grappling arts, sure it will get as strong as an ox and get you in good shape but it doesn't seem like the best fit for those sports to me. If that level of kettlebell training is too taxing then maybe it's time re-assess your program.
mmm... for judo it's good. BJJ is different, although I think the S&S moves are pretty well aligned with BJJ guard sweeps.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Yeah for sure but I can do other grip specific work that isn't so hard on everything else. The TGU's are going to be the basis of my program that I'm planning for them & it will include swings or snatches but the volume of S&S just seems like to it's too much to me, especially when you get to the level @Kozushi is at with a 40 kg bell.
Well that hits the nail on the head doesn't it? It's the VOLUME of S&S that is causing me difficulty, and I'm worried that doing only 40% of S&S (for instance) won't maintain or build strength. I just don't have the know-how to know if 40% S&S is worthwhile or not.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
+1 for the human burpee

If you do a lot of judo, then maybe just stay with 2x S&S per week. That seems to be enough. Just do your full S&S 2x/week and save your enery for judo.
Yes, this might be a good idea.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I'm a combat instructor and train 6 days a week with S and S and at 59 yrs feel the best ever, far better than weight training. The core strength adds so much to my combat training I wish I'd started years ago! I find Im recovered and OK to train within the hour of S and S perhaps you are over training a bit, try dropping a size or two on the KB's
Yes, S&S with light kettlebells is no problem. But then, what is the benefit?
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
So 40 swings in sets of 5, and 4 TGUs (2L 2R)?
As many swings as you feel you need in order to be effective. Do 60 swings if you like. Doing them in shorter sets, specifically sets of 5, is actually quite different. You can be much more explosive, or you can use a heavier weight, or both. It will take longer to complete but it should leave you feeling fresher.

I'm not making a suggestion about the getups - start with the swings and see how shorter sets works for you. 100 swings in sets of 5 just means it takes twice as long, or possibly less if you shorten the rest periods, but I would start by planning it to take twice as long.

-S-
 

Robert Noftz

Level 5 Valued Member
Hi all. I'm finding that because of so much judo training, I'm missing too many days of kettlebell exercise. S&S is a bit much to do on the same day as judo training, for example. This is because the 2 moves are done to the point of near exhaustion. (I do S&S a minimum of twice a week as per the book.)

What I'm looking for is some other routine for days I'm tired from judo that will have REAL BENEFITS for my judo and overall health, but is less exhausting and possibly more varied(?), and likely will take less time to complete therefore.

For instance, 40 swings and 4 TGUs I can do any time, and day. It's going beyond this minimal amount where the "real" exercise happens. But, this is also where the overexhaustion happens.

I noticed the result of not doing my one hand swings for a while when I pulled a muscle a few days ago that is normally kept strong with 1 handed swings.

Should I just do a daily minimum of 40 swings and 4 TGUs? Would this be logical?
I'm not sure what you mean by getting real benefits. I guess it depends on what you mean by real benefits. It seems that anything you do which would benefit your cardiovascular system would also tax your recovery abilities. The same with strength training. If you do enough to grow stronger it will effect your recovery ability to some degree. Anything you do will add to the load on your system. Some other things could be a factor such as your age, how much you sleep, and other stresses that you have in your life.
I don't know how much judo practice you are doing. Perhaps you are practicing at a level where you don't have the energy to do much else.
Perhaps doing only a couple of the sets with the heavier kettlbell would help. Even though I can practice with the 40kg, I notice that I still get good benefits from practicing with the 32kg.
One final thing, I am not sure what you mean by doing the swings and get ups to the point of near exhaustion. Pavel recommends practicing at a level which leaves you with energy to engage in your other activities. He argues for practicing at a level which gives you more than it takes out of you. Perhaps it would be helpful to practice with a lighter kettlebell at least some of the time and add in a few heavy sets when you are feeling fresh enough.
 

Suggy3001

Level 1 Valued Member
Also, that is a lot of energy to expend i.e. you need to be eating a ton of high quality food to enable recovery. If judo is covering the bases with conditioning and the KBs are for pure strength you could go up a bell and reduce volume, I get stronger on low reps (<3) and 3-5 days between sessions fine. You can also cycle effort on judo as suggested - some days take conditioning easy, other days push hard.
 

Maine-ah KB

Level 7 Valued Member
Well that hits the nail on the head doesn't it? It's the VOLUME of S&S that is causing me difficulty, and I'm worried that doing only 40% of S&S (for instance) won't maintain or build strength. I just don't have the know-how to know if 40% S&S is worthwhile or not.
My thought is if its 40% is fine especially after doing a judo session. another thought is S&S as written 2 weekly and the other 3-5 days alternate doing 100 swings and TGU. so day 1 full s&s day 2 just swings, day 3 tgu. etc. OR drop the wieght and work overspeed eccentrics and really slow get ups, the benefit being your working speed and movement quality.
 

Martine Kerr

SFG-TL, Elite
Team Leader Certified Instructor
A few options I've used with Ice Hockey players (yes...there is hockey here in Dubai :)). Modification of S&S while still honoring the principles.

1) S&S on 2 days (Swings and Get Ups), then Swings OR Get ups only on other days.
2) Half the amount of TGUs and do them from the top (down-up) instead of bottom (up-down). Most find that harder, hence fewer reps.
3) On the swing only days as in #1, substitute snatches for more explosive power. Lighter kb of course.
 
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